« CONSTITUTION Home | Email msg. | Reply to msg. | Post new | Board info. Previous | Home | Next

Beldin, Re: Muslim Brotherhood candidate wins Egyptian presidential election

By: lkorrow in CONSTITUTION | Recommend this post (0)
Tue, 26 Jun 12 8:31 PM | 80 view(s)
Boardmark this board | Constitutional Corner
Msg. 18684 of 21975
(This msg. is a reply to 18672 by Beldin)

Jump:
Jump to board:
Jump to msg. #

Unless things go dramatically downhill under Morsi, I think the Army will not prevail, they will be consumed. The opportunity to take back Egypt will be short and perhaps it will not come at all.

One question, is the Army infiltrated by islamists to the extent say, Pakistan's is? I would venture that they are and it's only a matter of time before Morsi or another Islamist consolidates power and removes obstacles as occurred in Venezela and now Turkey and likely Pakistan. In Pakistan, they caved to the Islamists; they're doomed.

Read every word of this. The Islamists have reached the tipping point, imo. I could feel this Islamist wave coming, this is not good. And this is why we must stop Muslim immigration. It's only a matter of time that our aging population succumbs to them, if we are not vigilent. We appease and strengthen them.

I suppose when it gets down to it, Hillary's dealing with enemies (MB) because there is no choice. Hard to envision how to turn this around. Maybe demographics will do it, maybe their own civil wars, maybe chaos. Maybe it will be Turkey vs. Iran vs. Saudis vs. Egypt and each of their sphere's of influence. Or, worse case, they may band up against the West. There are already way too many countries seemingly making nice with Iran and Russia.

Beware Putin. Iran needs taking care of before it's too late.

Worst-case scenario comes true

Martin Kramer
Posted: 26 Jun 2012 01:07 AM PDT

Did I predict the “Arab Spring”?

The short answer is “no.” I didn’t foresee that the self-immolation of a Tunisian fruit vendor would set off a wave of popular unrest that would bring down the rulers of Tunisia, Libya, and Egypt, plunge Syria deep into civil conflict, and roil Bahrain.

The long answer is a bit more interesting. In 2004, I did a study (under contract and as part of a team) on the prospects for regime change, transition, and survival in the Middle East. The results were circulated exactly seven years ago, in June 2005. I have an aversion to making predictions—in public. Private predictions are another matter, and in this study, I explicitly laid out three future long-term scenarios and my estimate of their likelihood. Read the study here (pdf).

The first point to note is that the phrase “Arab Spring” was being used even then, to refer to a series of developments triggered by Lebanon’s so-called “Ceder Revolution.” It’s a recurring trope—the Western expression of the hope-springs-eternal attitude towards Arab politics. My assignment was to visit the region and see whether I could find the drivers of such change.

So what did I find? I came away with the impression that Arab regimes were losing their grip (see my “Trend 3: Weakening Regimes”). Their own “reform” policies were falling short, and they were being undermined by Bush administration rhetoric about democracy. Here’s where I finally came down, in my “Scenario Summary”:

Reforms have been insufficient to overcome the fundamental problem of the state: its inability to generate growth. There is a paradox here: preservation of the status quo requires reform, but every reform undermines the status quo in some way large or small. And as pressure builds from within and without, reforms must become more extensive, threatening the status quo still further. The situation is reminiscent of the Ottoman Empire and Qajar lran a century ago, when a succession of reforms in stagnant political orders ultimately produced a snowball effect, culminating in constitutional revolutions. We believe that the reformed status quo can still buy the regimes some time, but it takes more and more reform to buy less and less time. In other words, reform is a depreciated coin and one that has lost much credibility over the past decade. We believe it is possible that a few regimes could see their reform strategy fail.

But my study was highly skeptical about the prospect of liberal democratization. The liberals whom I met admitted to me that they had no social base, and “in meetings held in Egypt and Jordan in preparation of this paper, every interlocutor admitted that throwing open the system today would mean an Islamist surge.” Hence this conclusion:

The chief beneficiary of any crisis will be the Islamists.… It seems quite likely that in this coming decade one or more Islamist movements will be positioned to assume power or a predominant share of power, particularly in places where the state is chronically weak. Weak states include Iraq, Lebanon, the Palestinian Authority and (increasingly) Syria. Egypt, Jordan and Saudi Arabia are stronger, but their regimes increasingly suffer from deficits of legitimacy. Where states are weak, Islamists are likely to make outright bids for power. Where states are strong, there is a distinct possibility that regimes will strike deals with lslamists, gradually expanding the space for Islamist action while preserving the political status quo. In some ways, this is the opposite of reform and will send these states into trajectories of creeping Islamization.

In summation, we see liberal democratic transformation as unlikely. We believe the contest is bipolar, between regimes and Islamists, with the former less and less able to resist Islamist entreaties and encroachments. We believe that the coming decade will see more power ceded to Islamists, who will be wooed by regimes, the secular opposition and foreign powers alike. As elections allow them to demonstrate their appeal, they will increasingly become the fulcrum of politics.

This seems to me an all-too-accurate description of where we are, seven years into the “coming decade.” I didn’t foresee the details of how we would get here, and I didn’t exactly pinpoint the weakest links. (The study didn’t even include Tunisia and Libya.) But I wasn’t knocked off my feet when the “reform” strategies of some Arab regimes failed, when a “snowball” of “constitutional revolutions” followed, and—most importantly—when Islamists became the chief beneficiaries of the whole process.

That’s why I was baffled by the enthusiasm of those analysts who swooned to the romance of Tahrir Square. As I wrote in 2005, “The rise of Islamism to political prominence or dominance is a worst-case scenario for U.S. policy, and it is also the most likely scenario in every setting that moves toward genuine political pluralism and free elections.” True then, true now, and (so I predict again) true in the future to come.




Avatar




» You can also:
- - - - -
The above is a reply to the following message:
Muslim Brotherhood candidate wins Egyptian presidential election
By: Beldin
in CONSTITUTION
Mon, 25 Jun 12 11:25 PM
Msg. 18672 of 21975

Morrissey thinks the Egyptian military will intervene if the Muslim Brotherhood gets too rambunctious. Anyone else have any thoughts about the potential interplay between the Eqyptian military and the Muslim Brotherhood? B. 

Muslim Brotherhood candidate wins Egyptian presidential election
By Ed Morrissey
Hot Air
Posted at 12:31 pm on June 24, 2012

http://hotair.com/archives/2012/06/24/muslim-brotherhood-candidate-wins-egyptian-presidential-election/

Well, this should make the Middle East a calmer, more rational place … right?

Muslim Brotherhood candidate Mohammed Morsi has won Egypt’s presidential runoff, the country’s election commission said Sunday.

Morsi’s supporters, packed into Tahrir Square, were seen celebrating, dancing and waving flags after the result was announced.

Morsi won by a narrow margin over Ahmed Shafiq, the last prime minister under deposed leader Hosni Mubarak. The commission said Morsi took 51.7 percent of the vote versus 48.3 for Shafiq.

Earlier Sunday, Egyptian police were ordered to confront any attempt to break the law with decisive force ahead of the results being announced, as soaring tensions in the country raised fears of a new outbreak of political violence.


Hey, not to worry, though. Who says we can’t work with the Muslim Brotherhood? Why, here’s one of their clerics on the campaign trail earlier, complimenting Israel about Jerusalem and telling the crowd he’d like to visit there soon … joined by a few million “martyrs” (via RabbiLive and Breitbart) [see update]:

{Embedded Video}

It’s a catchy tune and you can dance to it, but somehow I don’t see it playing well on American Bandstand. Note well how the cleric tells the crowd to forget about the world and “conferences,” and that Jerusalem (al-Quds) will be their capital.

I’m a little more sanguine about this, but not because I think Morsi is a closet moderate who will pull a Nixon-goes-to-China move and work with Israel. The Egyptian military is not likely to take orders from Morsi that risks its funding or its status in the nation. If the Muslim Brotherhood tries to march on Jerusalem in anything but the figurative, spiritual sense, the military won’t hesitate to depose Morsi and impose its own rule on Egypt — putting the country right back to the Mubarak status quo. They have already defanged the Egyptian parliament in anticipation of this outcome. They don’t want a war with Israel, and certainly not with the US, which is what an attack on Israel will bring. I’d expect Morsi to either play along and be a good little puppet to mollify the Muslim Brotherhood, or suddenly disappear if he doesn’t.

Update: Breitbart and RabbiLive were apparently incorrect about the identity of the speaker. It’s not Morsi, but a MB cleric. I’ve edited the post accordingly, and my apologies for the error. Thanks to Legal Insurrection for the heads-up..


« CONSTITUTION Home | Email msg. | Reply to msg. | Post new | Board info. Previous | Home | Next