« POPE IV Home | Email msg. | Reply to msg. | Post new | Board info. Previous | Home | Next

Re: When it comes to Military Aircraft 

By: Zimbler0 in POPE IV | Recommend this post (5)
Thu, 06 Jul 17 5:24 AM | 82 view(s)
Boardmark this board | POPES NEW and Improved Real Board
Msg. 28495 of 47202
(This msg. is a reply to 28473 by lkorrow)

Jump:
Jump to board:
Jump to msg. #

>>
Guess how many hours of maintenance the F-35 requires. You guessed it, 50 hours.
>>

Dear Linda,
I'm not sure if the maintenance costs are right or not . . .

>>>
http://breakingdefense.com/2013/08/marines-put-f-35b-flight-costs-17-percent-lower-than-osd/

Marines Put F-35B Flight Costs 17 Percent Lower Than OSD

PENTAGON: By combing through the assumptions — some of them deeply questionable — undergirding the Defense Department’s official cost estimates for the F-35B and refining them, the Marines say the plane should cost 16.6 percent less per flight hour than the current estimate. Since the F-35B is the most expensive plane to operate, lowering these cost estimates for the Joint Strike Fighter’s Marine version would have a substantial impact on the program’s overall costs.

“We believe we are going to achieve much greater savings than we are currently being credited for,” Marine Lt. Gen. Robert Schmidle, deputy commandant for aviation, told me in an interview here.

Among the questionable assumptions Schmidle highlighted is this whopper: the Office of Secretary Defense estimate developed by the Cost Assessment and Program Evaluation office (CAPE) predicted that the F-35B would be flown at full throttle in STOVL mode — which uses enormous amounts of fuel and utilizes the highly sophisticated lift fan system at much greater rates than the Marines project — about 80 percent of its time in the air.

Anyone who has watched the Harrier or the F-35B knows that Marines pilots rely sparingly on STOVL mode. It’s only used for a limited set of tactical moves and, usually, for taking off or landing the aircraft. The great majority of the plane’s flight time — could it be as much as 80 percent? — would be spent flying without using the lift fan and STOVL.

The current CAPE estimate assumes $41,000 an hour for the F-35B. A senior defense official said they will eventually bring the costs down to $30,000 per hour, with an interim figure of about $37,000. Schmidle also notes that the F-35B’s cost figures were extrapolated from the costs of the much older AV-8B Harrier.

Overall, once the F-35 replaces the three Marine aircraft — F-18, EA-6B, Harrier — it is designed to supplant the Marines will save an estimated $520 million a year in operations and maintenance costs in 2012 dollars, Schmidle says.

>>>

(Article does continue. Zim.)




Avatar

Mad Poet Strikes Again.


- - - - -
View Replies (1) »



» You can also:
- - - - -
The above is a reply to the following message:
Re: When it comes to Military Aircraft
By: lkorrow
in POPE IV
Thu, 06 Jul 17 12:48 AM
Msg. 28473 of 47202

Zim,

I see the first test of the cannon in-flight was completed in May. This article says it fires 55 "chili-dog-sized" rounds/sec and carries 220 rounds, which is 4 seconds of firing time. But it beats its competitors.

F-35 cannon finally gets a test in flight at 3,300 rounds per minute (VIDEO)

http://www.guns.com/2017/05/22/the-f-35-finally-gets-to-test-its-cannon-in-flight-at-3300-shots-per-minute-video/

When some intel people said we should scrap the F-35 and upgrade our current fleet, it struck me as a bad idea, as we need to be forward-looking and ahead of the curve. But the more I've seen of the F-35, the more concerned I am, as just about anything in the air can out-maneuver it. The cannon's a nit, it just seemed crazy. I'm concerned with dogfights and maintenance. What if we wanted to bomb Iran? In the F-35 scenario, would we have something capable of protecting the bombers from incoming fighters? Or do we think we'll shoot them down from 50 miles away?

The maintenance issue gets a little personal, as the F-14 was retired because it was getting too long in the tooth. Even though its electronics were upgraded, it was taking too many maintenance hours per hour of flight.

"The F-14 is currently the most expensive aircraft to operate in the Navy inventory, requiring 40 to 60 maintenance manhours per flight hour. For comparison, the F-18 Hornet requires only 20 hours of maintenance and the latest F-18E/F Super Hornet requires just 10 to 15 hours. These high maintenance costs played a large role in the Navy's decision to move the retirement of the F-14 up from 2010 to 2006." http://www.aerospaceweb.org/question/planes/q0119.shtml

So, the F-14 was averaging 50 hours of maintenance; the F-18, 20 hours and the F-18, 10-15 hours. The F-14 was retired because it needed 50 hours of maintenance per hour of flight. Guess how many hours of maintenance the F-35 requires. You guessed it, 50 hours.

Note they wanted to kill the A-10, an irreplaceable necessity in the fleet. Like the F-14, it would have been retired without replacement functionality. Thankfully that battle was won, because it was suicidal for our soldiers to go into battle without close air support and not all of our Congress-critters are spaced out.

There's something's wrong with this picture. There are many options, as can be seen googling "F-35 replacement." Whatever we do, it should include the features necessary for air superiority and it should cover the bases that will allow us from known enemy threats and situations we could find ourselves in. And also, have the muscle behind the boast. That could be fix the F-35, build a new plane, or extend the life of our existing fleet.

If the F-35 doesn't do the job or will take more time to develop, we should upgrade our current fleet of planes in the interim, imo. Almost half were sidelined for maintenance, last I heard. What if we have ME and Asian theaters like NK? We need to act, not talk about it endlessly!

We need to hold our suppliers feet to the fire. What looks like sabotage is normal development? Fifty hours of maintenance for an hour of flight? Planes can only fly a couple of times a week, a couple of hours per week? Build bigger carriers to house the mechanics? Ridiculous. The suppliers are mis-managed.

I’m no expert. This is my perception and may not be reality. I’m just the ripped-off taxpayer.



« POPE IV Home | Email msg. | Reply to msg. | Post new | Board info. Previous | Home | Next