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Re: Dozens Of WikiLeaks Cables Show US Knew NATO Expansion Was Russia's Bright Red Line

By: Zimbler0 in 6TH POPE | Recommend this post (0)
Fri, 20 Jan 23 9:40 PM | 16 view(s)
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Msg. 39296 of 52954
(This msg. is a reply to 39277 by Fiz)

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Fiz > We all know the story of Iran. The US has killed probably millions of civilians in its various forays. And we are doing it all, or nearly all, for plunder.


We did not invade Iraq for 'plunder'. I know the left wing-nuts would have me believe that . . . But near as I can tell Bush coerced the Iraqi's themselves into writing themselves a new Constitution and electing new leaders. Iraq's oil sales were financing Iraq - not filling the U.S. Treasury.


Fiz > The people of eastern Ukraine are MOSTLY ethnic Russian who have been living under the thumb of the ethnic Ukrainians for some time. Don't tell me it isn't true...I've been there, you haven't.


Perhaps. But prior to the breakup of the USSR Ukrainians were living under the thumb of Russia - NOT the other way around. And I would not trust an 'election' held under Russian control any more than I would trust an 'election' ran by the demo-rat party.

Yes, I'm pretty sure that most folks all over the planet would love nothing more than to live in peace and prosperity. But far too many governments all over the planet have dictators and wanna-be-dictators who wold love to expand their empires - by any means necessary.

Russia is the number one threat to Eastern Europe and China is the biggest threat to the U.S. and many other countries.

Zim.




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The above is a reply to the following message:
Re: Dozens Of WikiLeaks Cables Show US Knew NATO Expansion Was Russia's Bright Red Line
By: Fiz
in 6TH POPE
Fri, 20 Jan 23 11:09 AM
Msg. 39277 of 52954

Fair enough.

FWIW, I was raised in a military family and, between that and the rest of my upbringing, I was trained to be very patriotic and proud that "we are the good guys", "land of the free and home of the brave", a successful Republic where THE PEOPLE self governed. It's been a hard ride, a long time, and an ignominious journey since I've been proud of my country of birth.

I give those who served in the US military in the past a pass, because if I didn't know, how should they have known? And once you are signed up, you can't get out too easily. But right about now, I don't give anyone a pass. There is an oath of military office, and I presume the oath of civil office says something similar. Don't swear to defend the Constitution from enemies "foreign AND DOMESTIC", and then actually SERVE the domestic enemies, doing their every bidding, and pose as a Patriot.

Anyway, the US has been toppling “democratically elected” governments around the world for quite a long time, now. I've spent time in Chile, where the US similarly instigated a coup. We all know the story of Iran. The US has killed probably millions of civilians in its various forays. And we are doing it all, or nearly all, for plunder. WW2 was the last real war we fought where I believe we did the right thing for the right reasons.

What is actually going on inside Putin's head, I don't know. I recognize he is a strong-man/dictator. I'd like to say he is no better than our own "President", but I can't even say that (can you?). And I don't think Putin had any real choice, under the circumstances, other than to take back THEIR buffer/territory (Crimea and eastern Ukraine) from way back. The people of eastern Ukraine are MOSTLY ethnic Russian who have been living under the thumb of the ethnic Ukrainians for some time. Don't tell me it isn't true...I've been there, you haven't.

And we BOTH know what the US would have done, and would do, if a hostile foreign power toppled the presumably democratically elected government of Canada or Mexico, and then proceeded to move in military presence, installed an ANTI US government, and talked about annexing the occupied country into the greater CCP "defense pact". All of us, probably including me, would be calling for us to take over Canada or Mexico. We would really have no choice.

Russia post USSR was as badly bungled as any US takeover operation in history. China was, and remains, the alien and most dangerous country. Russia mostly wanted to go back to its roots as a self-respecting European sovereign nation. They are considerably less "Marxist", at this point, than the United States. I'm telling you that as someone who has spent time in Russia (as well as Ukraine), talking to native Russians.

It's pretty sad it has come to this. But having seen Russia and the moral cesspool of Ukraine personally, there is no doubt -- in my mind -- that it is better for world peace, in the long run, for Ukraine to remain a buffer territory of Russia...as it has been for longer than the US has existed.

And it is better for the US to close all its foreign bases and get out of its captured puppet states, and collapse back to its knitting. Maybe then we could have a real chance of getting some sort of limited-government Republic back. Yes, that is a long shot, but it would be the right thing to do. And, if we put ourselves back into moral and physical shape, we might have both the moral and economic power to oppose China and the Davos/UN one-world government. Right now we have a government which, increasingly, seems just an extension of world Marxism (or whatever you care to call this filthy system).

The US Constitution is approximately the only thing I still respect in the US. Well, the Constitution and the fire in SOME of the people! And, I've got to say, for a conquered country, some sections of the US governance system still occasionally put up a fight... The court system continues to surprise me from time to time; the House of Representatives just made me proud; and some States still show real fire and independence (Florida in particular)!

Anyway, enough of that. It is hard to deal with everything vital we were taught about our country's last 70 years or so of history turning out to be a lie and a deceit. It is hard for me, at least. I was born a free man. I can't just plug back into The Matrix, and pretend we have "God on our side", as we go marching off to another FOREIGN war, while we live under the thumb of enemies DOMESTIC.


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