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Re: A new poll shows 52% of Republicans actually think Trump won the popular vote

By: xcslewis in ALEA | Recommend this post (0)
Mon, 19 Dec 16 8:56 PM | 110 view(s)
Boardmark this board | The Trust Matrix 		Msg. 20504 of 54959
(This msg. is a reply to 20499 by Cactus Flower)
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The vote margin for the nation was 2.9 million votes.

California alone provided a popular vote margin of 4.3 million votes for Clinton. The Governor's office was not on the ballot. The Senate race was between two Democrats. The 53 representative districts nearly are districts dominated by one party or the other, only 17 are represented by Republicans. There was little incentive for Republicans to vote in California.

In Illinois, there was no Governors race. There was a Republican Senate candidate. There was little difference between the two candidates, both were progressives. In Cook County it is pointless for Republicans to even field candidates in nearly all races. The popular vote margin in Illinois was nearly a million votes for Clinton.

In New York the margin for Clinton was 1.7 million. I haven't looked closely at New York but my guess it is similar to California and Illinois.

My view is the existing system isn't perfect but the Union was formed under a system that provided the citizens of all states to have a voice. States joined the union under that premise and to change the rules invalidates the justification for entering the union.

i understand the entire objective of the effort is to "cast a cloud over trump's presidency".

i suppose an argument could be made the rules for the democratic primaries "cast a cloud over clinton's candidacy and she did not have a clear mandate from the people" that voted in the democratic primaries.


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The above is a reply to the following message:
Re: A new poll shows 52% of Republicans actually think Trump won the popular vote
By: Cactus Flower in ALEA
Mon, 19 Dec 16 6:41 PM 		Msg. 20499 of 54959

two things can be true at the same time. the notion of justice is sometimes independent of the law, which is one reason why we employ judges.

clo and i accept the rules and their result. we can also ask a different question. should the rules be changed in future elections to reflect a newly revealed problem, which the system, as devised, did not contemplate?

it is reasonable to ask, in consequence of a result like this, what is the purpose of the electoral college if it doesn't procure an outcome which reflects the views of the largest number of voters? should the system be changed in future? should electoral college voters be permitted the freedom to exercise their powers in the interest of the ideal of democratic "justice"? after all, the irreducible us constitutional idea is that the will of the people is sacrosanct. who but the electors can right the glaring contradiction of an election such as this?

i remember mcenroe defeating borg on points scored but he lost wimbledon. the difference was two points. so close that it didn't matter. but 2.8m isn't a small number. is there any harm in people knowing this fact? it might foster humility in the winners.

i agree that you cannot undo a result after the event. but maybe an additional rule can be written for future elections. if a candidate secures at least 1% more than any other, they shall be president without regard to the results of the electoral colleges. heck, it might mean the candidates will visit a few states other than those in swing territory.

although he will be president, the system, as designed, casts a cloud over trump's presidency. he doesn't have a clear mandate from the people to tear down the government. and yet this appears to be his plan.


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