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Re: Bernie Sanders: Carrier just showed corporations how to beat Donald Trump

By: Cactus Flower in ALEA | Recommend this post (0)
Sun, 04 Dec 16 5:19 AM | 62 view(s)
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Msg. 20341 of 54959
(This msg. is a reply to 20323 by Cactus Flower)

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if, instead of running an economy, we talked about something that has a few similarities, i doubt folks would come to the discussion with strong convictions.

take a system like roads. roads provide the marketplace for people travelling. some people might say, let's have no rules. everyone knows you'd have a lot of accidents. other people might say, let's put traffic lights every ten yards. everyone knows that would create nightmare traffic jams. other people might say, make everyone go on buses, but most times, i want to go on a journey that no one else is taking so taking a bus is inefficient.

how do we deal with roads? well, we have some general rules, such as what side folks should drive and how traffic lights work. we have some industry regulations defined by the government such as how high bridges should be built and what sort of cars should be allowed on the roads. we have some industry choices such as how cars are designed. we have personal choices like what trip do we want to take. we have some regulations on drivers such as how fast can you drive. highway patrol officers keep an eye on the traffic.

few people argue with the principles of the road economy. most see that there's a public good in everyone being able to travel. the road market allows private activity and things like buses to run through it. there are systems in place to make sure people don't ignore the rules.

it's the same with an economy. people might start by assuming principles. but when you look closely, the reality is more complicated.

for myself, i say it's best to start with the assumption that the detail isn't going to submit to ideals. but that ideals should submit to the detail. delivering a functioning road system means you learn over time what rules you need and you try to be as practical as possible. same with an economy.




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The above is a reply to the following message:
Re: Bernie Sanders: Carrier just showed corporations how to beat Donald Trump
By: Cactus Flower
in ALEA
Fri, 02 Dec 16 9:37 AM
Msg. 20323 of 54959

hi csl,

i reject the political extremes but i don't know if minimal government is optimal. there's a large space in between libertarianism and communism in which there is room for manouevre.

i don't agree that unfettered markets necessarily generate greater wealth and innovation.

sometimes unfettered markets generate more corruption. witness the years leading up to 2008.

sometimes unfettered markets pass negative externalities to other folks - such as a farm that sends pesticides downstream and harms the fishing industry.

sometimes regulating risks in the finance industry reduces risks on main street.

sometimes regulation creates the market - for instance, intellectual property cannot exist in the absence of government protection. many medicines would not exist but for IP rights as no one would invest in the research if there was no guarantee of the protection required to monetise it.

the fact that property exists as a result of laws is the clue: it tells you that regulation can actually be creative of value. if this is so, how much regulation optimizes value? i don't know. but i don't think minimizing regulation necessarily makes more wealth, any more than maximising regulation increases it. the sweet spot might be somewhere in the middle. who knows?

my feeling is that the best method is to set aside the grand principles and just treat the issues you are looking at as best as you can.


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