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Re: meanwhile obama 

By: DigSpace in ALEA | Recommend this post (1)
Tue, 08 Dec 15 10:44 PM | 79 view(s)
Boardmark this board | The Trust Matrix 		Msg. 17778 of 54959
(This msg. is a reply to 17777 by Cactus Flower)
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I acknowledge the problem, and it is one for which action is being taken, and one for which I think additional action requires a definition of success. Identifying problems is the easy part, and I am in agreement that the liberal melting-pot fantasy is just that, a fantasy. The plain fact of history is that there are social forces that one must defeat as oppose to integrate. The notion that this is a Islam thing is persuasive, but we unfortunately lack a substitute -- an oil rich impoverished "backwards" hunk of the planet that stumbles into oil about 90 years ago, and then is largely run roughshod over by the richer more developed world for close to a century, bombed into oblivion, etc etc etc -- were it to be a e.g. massive Jewish majority area, would we not poll suicide bombers at 75/25 as well? We certainly praise soldiers giving up their lives blasting the bits out of Hussein's regime, revel in the triumphs of drones, a feel a collective righteousness in cool night videos of cruise missiles leveling compounds.

Consequently, I went and got myself a Kindle English Koran, and aside from it being an absolutely miserable read, I haven't yet got to parts that distinguish it meaningfully from e.g. the Old Testament and when I bump into lines that are floating the internet these days i find that in their context they are more benevolent than the aforementioned Old Testament.

But that has nothing to do with practice, and honor killing your own children is just plain diseased, yet it finds favor with large chunks of big places.

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Re: meanwhile obama
By: Cactus Flower in ALEA
Tue, 08 Dec 15 10:25 PM 		Msg. 17777 of 54959

I take the point. If it wasn't for the fact that ISIS seems to have just turned on the spigot of international terrorism which dilutes the stats, I might be more relaxed.

Here's how I would argue the opposite.

How many American lives will it take for you to acknowledge the problem? Another 14? 140? 2,977? What is the meaningful percentage?

If you were to say, but it hasn't happened yet ... I agree.

And don't you think it is better to run ahead of the curve? So that the casualties are prevented before they occur.

The problems of Europe are surely coming to the USA. Nothing inoculates Americans from this problem. We can all see the recent expansion of terror from Boko Haram in Nigeria around the Moslem Crescent, through Tunisia, Algeria, Libya, Egypt and Iraq to ISIS in Syria. These groups have infiltrated Moslem communities in Europe with hundreds joining ISIS from countries such as France, Belgium and the UK and turned them into terrorists too. Many such terrorists have crossed the Aegean, the Mediterranean, the Bosphorus and the Pillars of Hercules and entered Europe. Europe has tried harder than America to accept Moslem immigrants. It has more of them. It has been running the same multiculturalism model in various shades. It hasn't worked.

Surely the risk is manifest. Heck, these guys were devious enough to infiltrate the marriage waiver programme. America is next. When the risk is clearly present, you must act.

Obama's model is a glorified version of doing nothing much. Every avenue of action is closed. Sitting ducks come to mind.

For myself, I thought Bush's Afghanistan adventure was justified and it aroused global support. Iraq was the disaster. I think Obama could lever the necessary support to create a coalition to wipe out ISIS. I don't care that this "is what they want". It is what I think will work that matters to me.

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