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Re: Trump: You have to 'take out' terrorists' families

By: Down And Out Man in ALEA | Recommend this post (0)
Sat, 05 Dec 15 1:57 AM | 89 view(s)
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Msg. 17739 of 54959
(This msg. is a reply to 17735 by Cactus Flower)

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Another good post, alea.

there's an intellectually lazy response to the issues we face, which says we must assume everyone shares the same values and we'll get along over time. that's obama's line.

I'll never understand how anyone could possibly believe "everyone shares the same values." Share values with folks that treat women as second-class citizens? And I'm not talking about just a small subset of "radicalized" followers.

And, of course, I could type another three minutes listing other "values" we don't share.

I have no tolerance for any politician that hasn't/won't make the effort to understand the religion enough to have a clue what we're up against. Or maybe worse yet, have an understanding but be too gutless and "politically correct" to face it.

D&O


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The above is a reply to the following message:
Re: Trump: You have to 'take out' terrorists' families
By: Cactus Flower
in ALEA
Fri, 04 Dec 15 9:32 PM
Msg. 17735 of 54959

hi dig,

it is more a reformation in islamic politics than religion. allah is not my business. but sharia is. just as catholic land ownership and tithes, the index of banned books and the inquisition were a big part of the issue in the reformation of christianity.

islam isn't simply another abrahamic religion. it is more comprehensive than catholicism ever was. it is a system for every aspect of life - from belief to law (sharia) to politics (eg caliphate) to economics (eg lending rules, taxes for non-believers) to ideas of freedom (eg right to blaspheme) to rituals. islam organises your day.

where the aim is to apply these principles to a society, a western society, a lot of this trespasses into everyone's zone of interest. and there is a huge amount of evidence that this is the intent of many moslem "evangelists". remember the saudi offer to build 500 mosques in germany? it is definitely the intent of jihadis.

some folks believe that one must protect moslem sensibilities because we are dealing with religion. and where a moslem is talking about their belief in a god, i have no issue. but islam is also politics. sharia is the expression of superior god-made law over secular constitutions. and so the argument is germane.

many folks think you can close your eyes and the problems will disappear. but we are revisiting the conversations of the twelfth to the eighteenth centuries here, which most folks have long forgotten. spinoza and locke are the kinds of folks we are all going to be referring to soon. i have already started (but by no means finished) getting myself educated on the arguments that were applied back then as folks sought to shake off the political ambitions of organised religion.

there's an intellectually lazy response to the issues we face, which says we must assume everyone shares the same values and we'll get along over time. that's obama's line. but you can't contain a group that is a short flight away from western europe and one hop away from the us. many of the terrorists appear to be the children of immigrants who have spent some time fighting with ISIS and have returned "home". we are all vulnerable.

meanwhile, the islamists are hard at work delivering their message. and silencing everyone that disagrees saying they are islamophobes.

not going to accept that silence. i believe in muscular secular liberal values and will express them.

the only stability with islam in a western setting is a form of islam that accepts an overarching secular organisational structure for society. this requires a reformation in islam.

hier stehe ich. ich kann nicht anders.


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