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Re: The real Islam

By: DigSpace in ALEA | Recommend this post (0)
Fri, 20 Nov 15 9:01 AM | 100 view(s)
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Msg. 17653 of 54959
(This msg. is a reply to 17651 by Cactus Flower)

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I'm thinking its an artifact of who won, the Christains won Rome, and by consequence, Europe. Rome fell and Europe beat the tar out of itself for several hundred years but they did sit on decent geography, Gaul e.g. being a pretty choice piece of real estate. Perhaps the physically broken up nature of Europe (mountains, islands, forests, penninsulas) allowed for a more 'Risk' game of constant competition and indepdendent languages, but no matter how you slice it, Europe went on to colonize the world, have strong armies and navies (good real estate helps these things).

Islam sprouted up in the 7th century and while successful, never accumulated the technolgy and wealth of Christain Europe when the rubber hit the road (industrial revolution).

People that have all the stuff gravitate towards law, order, and secular principles (as far as I can see, pretty much anywhere).

If Martel had lost and the Moors conquered and re-settled Europe, forgotten about northen africa and the middle east over the centuries only to return as the owner of everythig to drill oil a millenia later I think it is perfectly likely that the region could be dominated by disgruntled chrsitains and/or jews cutting hands off.

Barbarism seems barbaric when one has lots of cool stuff, water, food, medicine, and HVAC. People showing up with dictators and toys seem blasphemous to the disenfranchized.

Or, alternatively, Islam more represents a reverision to the more militaristic old testement meme's as opposed to all the fuzzy Jesus stuff, which is rather confusing to me given that Islam embraces Jesus, allegedly.


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The above is a reply to the following message:
Re: The real Islam
By: Cactus Flower
in ALEA
Fri, 20 Nov 15 6:38 AM
Msg. 17651 of 54959

Hi Dig,

I think the difficult question is to ask why it is that Christians and Jews mostly don't seem so keen on chopping people's heads off for being non-Christian or non-Jewish any more, while some (too many) Moslems still think it's kosher. Or halal, maybe.

For me, it comes down to a few things:

1. Islam finds evolution alongside changing, modern environments difficult. Around its edges, this generates heat.

2. Christianity's ability to resist change was broken during the reformation, the scientific revolution and the enlightenment. And so it mostly gets out of the way of the changes a society wishes to make for itself and no longer has the powers to resort to punishment/violence.

3. The Jewish tradition of living as a minority along a diaspora makes it necessary to fit in.

Thus, the Western revolution by which secular government delivers a permissive, individualistic model stands in contrast to the collective and restrictive identity of the umma (the brotherhood of Islam) interpreted through a Koranic lens.

In the end, Islam will submit. But these things can take centuries.


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