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Re: Weslam

By: Cactus Flower in ALEA | Recommend this post (0)
Mon, 16 Nov 15 7:19 PM | 142 view(s)
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Msg. 17604 of 54959
(This msg. is a reply to 17600 by Cactus Flower)

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This is the kind of accommodation Islam needs to deliver if it is to participate in a multi-cultural society.

If not, I don't see how the experiment of mixing Islam into a free Western society can work. A free society has core shared values which everyone must adopt if they wish to live within it. People are free to believe and rebelieve as they wish and no one should seek to stop them. We vote. The state is largely secular. Law is man-made. We allow religious expression but not religious control. Individuals are free actors and free speakers within the framework of the law. There are no religious taxes. We define folks as equal before the law. etc.

No one agreed to import refugees and immigrants so as to impose sharia on the rest of us or to restrict non-violent speech or to advance the universal spread of Islam or to pay taxes in order to worship differently or not worship at all, or to divide society between believers and infidels.

So we must have an Islam which adopts the modern Western values which make it possible to live together. This isn't seventh century Arabia in which Islam seeks to set different tribes against one another in order to divide and rule, with the end goal of forced conversion.

Islam must bend itself to fit its surroundings. Or the folks who believe in a religiously defined state should migrate to countries which operate along conformist Moslem lines, of which there are plenty.

Not that this means anyone should do harm to individual Moslems in the West. They should not. We should not become the monster that ISIS is. The difficulty of this sort of discussion is the oiks that attack other people just for wearing a head scarf. Of course, many Moslems are perfectly decent. The difficulty is the size of the minority which is not, of whom some are extremely violent and have the controlling religious purpose we abhor.

But we have to get real. This isn't about the rights of Moslems. It's about the compromise deal between people in a free society that allows everyone to breathe the same air, and which is not up for negotiation.

Why is it that wherever Islam is a part of a society, there is violence? There's a problem within Islam. It isn't that Moslems are victimised. It's the problem of an unwillingness to bend, the demand for submission. The wish for control.


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The above is a reply to the following message:
Weslam
By: Cactus Flower
in ALEA
Sun, 15 Nov 15 6:51 PM
Msg. 17600 of 54959

Just like Catholicism split as a result of the unpopularity of the church during the reformation period, so it looks like Sunni Islam is overdue for a split between strict constructionists and those who think the Koran is a living document.

Islam, meet Weslam. Your Western cousin.

Weslam allows apostacy.

Weslam allows moral and religious evolution.

Weslam defines jihad as purely spiritual.

Weslam accepts the existence of other religions of equal stature, the choice not to be religious and the rule of secular law.

Weslam prizes human life and the pursuit of knowledge, wherever they lead.

Weslam avoids gross inequalities between individuals of either sex and respects personal choices that do no harm to others.

Weslam allows your adult children to make their own choices about who they love and live with, and what they believe. And spousal choices belong entirely to adults.

Weslam admits no advantage of believers over infidels and seeks the friendship of all people regardless of their beliefs.

Weslam is not a political system. It is simply a religion.

Weslam is about belief in a God and faith that he believes in kindness to every person, above all.

Weslam leaves the future in the hands of God and does not pretend to know when or how the world will end.

Weslam protects the vulnerable and despises those who do them harm.

Weslam seeks to befriend its enemies, discourages resentment and forgets ancient wrongs.

Weslam is not a victim story but a constructive support for those who are searching for a hopeful pathway through life.

Weslam does not permit an older person to encourage a younger one towards violence.

Weslam does not require anyone to know where Mecca is because prayer is directed inwards in search of a higher wisdom and neither direction requires knowledge of geography.

Weslam provides raisins and not virgins in the afterlife to childless men, as sexual incentives involving the subjugation of women to a man's desire are not a holy purpose. Indeed, virgin subjugation is a perverse incentive that is abused by some to manipulate the innocent and this is unweslamic.

Weslam admits that right behaviour depends on time, circumstance and perspective and that thus we cannot merely depend upon a book that is situated in a particular time and in a particular place and amongst a particular people to provide the answers we need today. Breathe the air you live in. It is refreshing.

Weslam does not grant you access to certainty.

Otherwise, it is like Islam.

Go forth and multiply, Weslims. I am looking for the door of a mosque to nail this on.


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