« ALEA Home | Email msg. | Reply to msg. | Post new | Board info. Previous | Home | Next

Re: economically conservative, socially liberal

By: tkc in ALEA | Recommend this post (0)
Thu, 15 Oct 15 6:14 PM | 209 view(s)
Boardmark this board | The Trust Matrix
Msg. 17407 of 54959
(This msg. is a reply to 17405 by Cactus Flower)

Jump:
Jump to board:
Jump to msg. #

CF, it appears we agree. I wrote  " a fiscal conservative attempts to follow budgets, budgets that are founded on realilistic projections with cushions for unanticipated expenses or revenue shortcomes. A fiscal conservative uses debt responsibly when it's favorable to do so or for rare necessity." Notice the words "attempts", "responsibly" and "favorable." Anyway, you asked the question. I and Clo, provided answers. I followed w/ queztions which you didn't respond to and continued w/ deflection. I think the vast majority of Americans, regardless of political leaning, agree w/ the concept of fiscal responsibility, which includes using debt prudently. Clo, very good point on the irony of the so called "fiscally responsible party" failing to honor their debts. They are hypocrites on so many issues. My favorite is the continuous manta of appling christian values which they abitually violate. They quote the bible w/ crossed fingers. They "talk the talk" and scramble to get to their feet when its time to walk.


- - - - -
View Replies (1) »



» You can also:
- - - - -
The above is a reply to the following message:
Re: economically conservative, socially liberal
By: Cactus Flower
in ALEA
Thu, 15 Oct 15 8:19 AM
Msg. 17405 of 54959

I misunderstood your post and changed my response when I realised it. I thought we were talking about economies rather than individuals and was trying to understand it that way.

Here's a bit of a hodge-podge reply to your latest post.

A bit of government debt is usually a useful and efficient thing even in normal circumstances. So I don't rule its use out just because bad things happened to Greece.

What happened to Greece noticeably didn't happen to the US. Why? One reason. The US has its own currency and manouevring a currency to conform with your own needs is, in my view, important. Whereas the Greeks were stuck with the Euro which is managed to suit the German economy.

So when you talk Greece, I think currency-related debt peoblems. In contrast, Japan has had a huge debt-GDP ratio for ages as well as the yen and seems stable enough.

When interest rates are low and you can borrow to build valuable infrastructure, why not do so? Sometimes, the answer is you don't want governments to crowd out private industry. Sometimes the environment is such that private industry isn't investing even in low interest rate environments and a government ought to take advantage.

A government can afford to take a long view - far longer than a budget period. The Hoover Dam was earning its keep long after it was built during the Depression. Doubtless folks scolded Roosevelt for spending more than the US was making in the 1930s.

We recently saw the US government increase its debt to extend support for the jobless. That helped stabilise consumption for businesses as well as keeping folks from starving.

If governments all scrimp and tighten their belts at the same time during a recession, everyone loses because trade and demand disappear from the economy.

The countries that tried to live within their means during the recent debacle contracted faster than those which adopted government growth programs - so the countries that followed the balanced budget philosophy actually saw their debt increase faster than many of those that spent more than they received in taxation. This is called the fiscal multiplier: "New evidence came from the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009, whose benefits were projected based on fiscal multipliers and which was in fact followed - from 2010 to 2012 - by a slowing of job loss and private sector job growth." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiscal_multiplier

And actually, in a growing economy, you maintain the ratio of debt to GDP by slightly outspending what you take in.

So yes, there are circumstances in which it is a good thing when the government borrows more than it makes. This may not be common sense but if memory serves it is the sort of thing taught by many economists.


« ALEA Home | Email msg. | Reply to msg. | Post new | Board info. Previous | Home | Next