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Re: hopeless debate 

By: Cactus Flower in ALEA | Recommend this post (1)
Wed, 14 Oct 15 5:45 PM | 224 view(s)
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Msg. 17397 of 54959
(This msg. is a reply to 17396 by tkc)

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I think you should consider the issue of inequality and how relatively extreme the disparity is in wealth and income between the rich and the poor in the US. It's an ugly curve.

http://assets.motherjones.com/politics/2011/inequality-p25_averagehouseholdincom.png

Unions may not be a cost-free way to improve the slope of the curve, but we need ways to do so and they are one of the few tools we have that have an impact. For instance, where there are massive inequalities in compensation for CEOs and workers, unions can pressure chiefs over the inflation of their income - so long as the ratio is disclosed.

http://www.epi.org/publication/ceo-pay-continues-to-rise/

Why should you want that? Wealth concentration is highly likely to be economically inefficient. For the whole of a society. In fact, societies which concentrate wealth as a matter of history appear to create all sorts of problems, not the least of which is chronic instability. Think of the Russian and French revolutions and gross inequality is right there at the heart of the issue.

Another perspective: wealth isn't merely measured in the depth of your pocket. Societies share wealth in the form of roads, health systems, fire brigades, law courts and other public goods. It's hard to have a nice life in a country without laws, freedoms and community assets. Taxes aren't merely a cost. They are the source of shared benefits as well.

So it's about finding a balance. Neither socialism nor capitalism creates pure virtues. They both require modification to reduce the harms they generate.

If your economy concentrates wealth (which seems to be a natural process of unregulated markets), your production turns to luxury items like yachts and private jets for the wealthy, while workers eat fast food and the poor commit survival crime. Sound familiar?

If wealth is spread more broadly (and that doesn't mean the same thing as equally), there are more consumers with spare cash, there are more folks investing in small businesses, there are more kids pursuing studies etc. Fun, highly educated culture, strong economic growth. Unfortunately, that's more Scandinavia than the US.

http://people.duke.edu/~dandan/Papers/Other/BuildingBetterAmerica.pdf

One would rather not solve issues of gross inequality through redistribution, regulation or intransigence. But if owners fail to spread the wealth from productivity gains and we know trickle down doesn't work, then the options are limited.

Frankly, public unions are a minor issue in modern America. This ain't the 1970s.




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The above is a reply to the following message:
Re: hopeless debate
By: tkc
in ALEA
Wed, 14 Oct 15 5:00 AM
Msg. 17396 of 54959

Poster. My argument was only about public unions. I strongly advocate for private unions. What private companies choose to do or not do dosen't effect my taxes. I agree progress has been made in curtailing public union total compensation, depending on government level and locale. It is a local government issue: city, town, county, school district, water district, state or whatever. As such is the case I shouldn't generalize. Days of mailmen working a few hours and goofing off for 4 or more are gone. Also gone are teachers that graduated from State colleges almost entirely on the taxpayers' dime - that worked 180 5 hour days/year - claiming they were underpaid. But there remains much abuse that is tollerated as supervisers are often those promoted within that know only "that's the way it is" and have no management skills and no interest/incentive to change. I see it every day, absolutely each and every day.


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