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Re: Bernie on Islam 

By: Cactus Flower in ALEA | Recommend this post (1)
Wed, 23 Sep 15 2:15 PM | 212 view(s)
Boardmark this board | The Trust Matrix 		Msg. 17371 of 54959
(This msg. is a reply to 17368 by Cactus Flower)
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With Islam, we meet the well-known paradox of toleration. The one thing the tolerant principle cannot abide is intolerance. Oh the irony. People that don't understand the paradox insert the word bigot in their confusion when confronted with this unpleasant problem.

In Islam we have a religion that is often expressed as a structure of submission to the will of Allah and the jolly Koran and Moslem law. It requires an intolerance of ideas unshackled from this structure. The Enlightenment model encourages religious tolerance but it was born out of the rejection of Catholic/religious control. So at the same time it demands religious toleration and rejection of religious authority.

For myself, I don't care that Moslems believe in Allah. I do care that Islam requires (or is often interpreted to require) its adherents to adopt illiberal values. It is the social outputs of Islam which are toxic and that matter.

The folks who give Islam a free pass because it is a religion, or who construe rejection of Islamic principles as a form of racism, are the folks who are anti-Enlightenment. How pathetic not to stand up for women's rights, or the right to apostacy, or homosexual rights, or speech rights, or secular democracy just because the intolerance of such ideas is couched in religious terms!




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Bernie on Islam
By: Cactus Flower in ALEA
Mon, 21 Sep 15 8:52 AM 		Msg. 17368 of 54959

"You know, this is the year 2015," Sanders told reporters at the opening of his new campaign office in Portsmouth, New Hampshire. "You judge candidates for president not on their religion, not on the color of their skin, but on their ideas, on what they stand for."

Isn't that what Carson was doing? Judging Moslems on their ideas.

No one cares about the colour of a Moslem's skin. Religion ain't a colour. But a person who adopts a belief system which believes in killing apostates, which is prejudiced against non-Moslems, which stops homosexuals from forming relationships, which reduces the status of women, which wants to impose religious law on society, which doesn't believe in the secular state - that's a person who believes in a crap load of ideas.

So that is why I can't support Sanders. He's naive. Not willing to face up to reality when it is inconvenient. Just because it's a religion doesn't mean you shouldn't point out the problem with the model.

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