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Re: Copernican Revolution etc**

By: Cactus Flower in ALEA | Recommend this post (0)
Sat, 01 Aug 15 7:19 AM | 192 view(s)
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Msg. 17231 of 54959
(This msg. is a reply to 17216 by Cactus Flower)

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It's a medieval incumbent-innovator argument.

Having a conceptually superior solution isn't the only thing that matters.

If the incumbent controls access to the market (imprimatur, anathema, index of forbidden publications) and distribution (disallowing communication with other heliocentrists, incarcerating the idea), maybe the innovator cannot sell their product (the heliocentric model).

This reminds me of something wise someone said. Now what and who might that be? Very Happy

Once the incumbent learns how to control the levers, they can seem relatively civilised in forcing innovators to submit and rendering their ideas stillborn. Even if, in the first place, to establish themselves, the incumbent murdered their opponents and razed their shrines. One step at a time. Nicaean dogma. Assault on neoplatonic and pagan people and places. Restriction of access to books. Excommunication of opponents. Inquisition. Control of publishing. From intimidation and violence to an almost transparent system of control of a submissive populace. An ecosystem of a curious and unobstructed classical science is channelled, via both Islam and Christianity, into conformity with holistic theologically-sound cosmologies. But finally, curiosity bursts the banks defined for it by religion once the technology exists to enable an uncontrollable flood of knowledge into the countryside.

There is resistance. Incumbents employ their levers to control those things they can. But the reformation creates zones beyond the control of the papacy. It is no coincidence that many innovations of the scientific revolution take place in Northern Europe.

At least in the modern technology world, it is not considered lese majeste to take your shot at changing the way folks conceive the universe. Even if it means trying to sweep aside existing theology and giving precedence to a new language.

"Philosophy is written in this grand book—I mean the universe—which stands continually open to our gaze, but it cannot be understood unless one first learns to comprehend the language and interpret the characters in which it is written. It is written in the language of mathematics, and its characters are triangles, circles, and other geometrical figures, without which it is humanly impossible to understand a single word of it; without these, one is wandering around in a dark labyrinth." - Galileo


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The above is a reply to the following message:
Re: Copernican Revolution etc**
By: Cactus Flower
in ALEA
Tue, 28 Jul 15 8:53 PM
Msg. 17216 of 54959

In sum, I believe the following things were in play:

amongst the obstructions
autocratic structure of the church (eg papal authority, index, publishing imprimatur, inquisition)
church politics
conservative clergymen
unified theology
overlapping magisteria (science and theology)
existing aristotelian/ptolemaic cosmology and its eccentricities (eg perfect circles)
science of confirmation
culture of submission
limitations in the evidence
some funky elements in the new theories (tycho's model, kepler's perfect solids, galileo's tides)
divisive personality of galileo

amongst the forces in favour of progress (in the direction of the heliocentric model)
wealth expands in secular society (dutch merchants, florentine bankers) leads to new sources of patronage
universities
printing press
protestantism and culture in north-western europe
progressive clergymen
telescope
complexities and failures of ptolemaic system
copernicus' model
observations and critiques of galileo
observations and evidence from tycho's observatory
kepler's mathematics
later newtonian solutions
science of refutation
individual determination of scientists seeking truths outside the mainstream

soup to nuts (copernicus to newton), it took a bit less than 150 years for the copernican revolution to take effect.


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