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Re: The Square-Cube law........

By: Cactus Flower in ALEA | Recommend this post (0)
Tue, 24 Jun 14 7:15 PM | 45 view(s)
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Msg. 15738 of 54959
(This msg. is a reply to 15737 by faul)

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okay. so i am glad you finally acknowledge the key point. the break up limit doesn't seem to be available.

so what is the numbers basis for a theory that the plane would have broken up when flying into the wtc?

i see a lot of unknowns rather than certainties.

1. the air speed of the aircraft as it flew over manhattan isn't known. radar readings point to a ground speed of 510 knots. video images suggest a ground speed that was lower. average west>east wind speeds suggest air speeds are 5% less than ground speeds on average but we don't know wind speeds for that day. so the air speed of the plane is not known.

2. we don't have access to an authoritative source for the break up speed of the aircraft. you have put forward velocity maxima which i contend are operating velocities. operating velocities are speed limits to reduce wear and tear and therefore to avoid higher maintenance costs. an aircraft engineer, whose evidence you doubt, contends that break up speed is constant in relation to the speed of sound. the speed of sound itself varies by altitude. the shock waves the atmosphere produces relate to the speed of sound at any particular altitude: they vary by air density and heat but appear to be constant at a particular mach number regardless of altitude. i believe these shock waves represent atmospheric resistance. this is how i read wikipedia's discussion of mach numbers but i am no expert. at any rate, neither of us has found an authoritative break up speed for this plane, and so we are left in limbo.

3. even if atmospheric resistance is constant relative to mach numbers, which i think you dispute, i believe friction and atmospheric heat in the engines may plausibly lower the speed limit of planes at low altitudes. i don't know by how much.

4. to reach higher velocities also requires thrust. the engine thrust capabilities required to reach specific velocities at specific altitudes requires a calculation. that calculation is something neither of us is offering. indeed i think neither of us has the knowledge base to perform it. the same aircraft engineer informs us that the boeing simulation software indicates the 767's engines can reach the thrust levels required to achieve the impact velocity. you doubt his integrity.

so basically, a theory that requires certainty in the figures and a decent knowledge of airplane mathematics is something that we do not have. what we have is a derivative conspiracy theory, on the one hand, and a porridge of doubt on the other.

not sure why you want to continue.


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The above is a reply to the following message:
Re: The Square-Cube law........
By: faul
in ALEA
Tue, 24 Jun 14 2:29 PM
Msg. 15737 of 54959

I never once asserted that the calculation 0.53/0.86
equals less than 40%....

I guesstimated that if an Aircraft was using
100% max red line thrust to reach a speed of
700mph at sea level then it was only using 40%
of max available thrust to get to a speed of 350mph at sea level.....& i Think that figure is very generous......more like 20%.

"only number i have heard for the break up speed is 0.86."

Yep.....coming from a single bloggers website,not the FAA or Boeing or anybody else in the entire universe!


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