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Re: ha ha ha 

By: Cactus Flower in ALEA | Recommend this post (3)
Tue, 24 Sep 13 8:50 PM | 91 view(s)
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Msg. 14764 of 54959
(This msg. is a reply to 14763 by cm)

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Hi cm,

Well, that was a charming reply but I'm still goddam irritated with your posts inside the bubble.

In those posts, you took the issue to the low level you now abhor.

Your posts on the issue of NSA back doors have been insulting to those with whom you disagree. Those who see a surveillance state are paranoid. Snowden is Abominable etc. (Yeah, I got the wit in the pun but it conceals a put-down of those who think otherwise). And really your argument is empty of substance. The whole thing is you saying anyone who believes something different from you is a wingnutty,extremist fool.

Guess what. It doesn't go down well.

The information about NSA programmes and the insertion of backdoors is extremely well documented. So much so that it is not in any doubt. No one has said there aren't also IA departments in NSA. Just that there are spooks subverting security for the whole world.

The NSA clearly has a programme to undermine systems that challenge their ability to view whatever the heck they like. For those who care, this is an affront to everyone's privacy.

Privacy is not anti-government. RS can be as anarcho-crazy as he likes. But privacy is something people have been permitted since mankind invented walls. It is a normal expectation of liberty everywhere (inside and outside the us) that a person is not subject to surveillance unless the government has reasonable and robust grounds for suspicion.

You can argue that the need for privacy is defeated by the want of security. But it is insulting to presume the defence of privacy is an extreme position. It is, in fact, a centrist, conservative (in the traditional sense) and liberal one.

So the NSA can actually be trespassing against social norms without its opponents needing to be extreme. That is what it is doing. In the worst ways possible. This is what Snowden revealed. He's a classic whistlebower.

But so as to deliver your invective you are painting the proponents of privacy as extreme. Snowden included.

That's the general point.

Specifically, you have to be beyond naive to think the arm of the NSA which inserts back doors is not attempting or has not already succeeded in doing the same somewhere along the TC supply chain.

So the question isn't "are they?" It's have they succeeded yet.

For some time I see your posts moving towards an extreme patriotic, almost neocon view of the world. Funny, as you were the first person I read who talked about them. Disparagingly at the time.

But now it seems the US is good. Everyone else not so much. I don't deny your right to hold the views you do. But you move towards propaganda when you caracature the positions of those with whom you disagree.

It was the neocons who justified everything by recourse to the risk of terror.

Invasion, because terror.

Gitmo, because terror.

Torture, because terror.

Drones, because terror.

So now even users of the network are adversaries. Because terror.

Is this your opinion? Seems that way to me. Pro-NSA to the point that you deny the reality of its activities. Stockholm Syndrome?

I don't know who told you about my post. I am happy they did so. It was intended to attract your attention. I remain committed to a TC that is robust and secure. For users. In order to recover some level of privacy if at all possible.


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The above is a reply to the following message:
Re: ha ha ha
By: cm
in ALEA
Tue, 24 Sep 13 8:01 PM
Msg. 14763 of 54959

Hi, Alea,

I lost track of this board awhile ago... until somebody (you admire) pointed me here last night.

I'm not going to take the discourse to the level you suggest. Your opinion regarding my status as "captive"... while I'm sure is a heartfelt assessment... doesn't comport with facts... financial or otherwise. I just read a lot of stuff, Alea. And I try to read from ALL sides, not just the one that fits my worldview. The NSA is the easiest possible target. But... there's a whole side of their house that has nothing to do with SigInt (spookiness)... and everything to do with defending networks and systems.

I did just notice you asked about Richard Stiennon on the iHUB board.

So allow me to tell you what I know about Richard:

* I met Richard four years ago for breakfast here in Austin. He is, personally, a very likeable guy. He is a complete gentleman. Like a lot of folks in Michigan, he's had some tough times. But he has a following... especially among the broader security vendor community... to whom he markets his services. (That's what former Gartner analysts do.) Until the recent conference, Richard had a paid-for relationship with Wave. (It is my theory that Richard has had a very tough time endorsing Trusted Computing because he has so many clients who, broadly speaking, have no Trusted Computing involvement. Or are TC competitors. But that's a theory.)

* I think--and this is my opinion only--that Richard falls into the Libertarian camp known as "anarcho-capitalists." It's my understanding that that is about as fringe as Libertarians go. That may not be quite right, i.e. the label for Richard's beliefs. But at the recent conference Richard informed me (among other items) that he does not believe there is something called "money laundering." There's just money... flowing. Further he said that Scott Charney at Microsoft was suspect... because Charney is a former government employee. (Richard does believe that, pretty much, everything government is bad. I don't fall into that camp. But every other morning I sit at a Starbucks table with folks who are committed to that belief system.)

* Richard is not a futurist. I'm not either. You're probably closer to that one than either Richard or me.

* To date (almost), Richard has been lukewarm (at best) about Trusted Computing... even though his services were paid for by Wave on at least a couple of occasions. He seemed to warm to Trusted Computing
just in time for the recent conference. (Again, he was not PAID to speak; though I'm pretty certain his expenses and travel were covered.) During several LinkedIn exchanges with Richard over the past 4 years, he has (more than once) been an opponent of Trusted Computing. That opposition shows itself to this day in his assessment that TC is a solution in search of a problem. (He has a point with that one. But I think it's a point that is lost on any organization having to address the Advanced Persistent Threat... BIOS-level attacks, etc.)

Best Regards,

c m


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