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Re: Military Coup Under Way In Egypt...............?

By: Cactus Flower in ALEA | Recommend this post (0)
Thu, 04 Jul 13 8:12 PM | 32 view(s)
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Msg. 13929 of 54959
(This msg. is a reply to 13928 by Cactus Flower)

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thing is, they are assaulting the lynchpin that holds the whole western system of liberty together.

though jt dismissed the evolution of uk history, nevertheless, uk freedoms are the seed from which us constitutional ideals were borne.

the sovereign being subject to the rule of law, habeas corpus, probable cause, separation of powers, life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, secure property rights, intellectual property law - these ideas didn't spring from the mind of jefferson and madison fully clad. they were borne to a great extent in the history and common law of england. in the ideals of personal liberty treasured in anglo-saxon custom, in the restraints on the sovereign imposed in magna carta, in the religious freedoms fought for and won during the investiture controversy, in the dissolution of the monasteries, in the english civil war, in the philosophical treatises of people like locke and hume. the founders interpreted and crystallised an english conversation into a constitution and bill of rights for america.

if you cut the roots, the tree withers.

if you remove the concept of individual freedom from the edifice of western civilisation, the whole thing begins to crumble. you remove the fundamental concept, the foundation upon which liberty is built.

this is the momentous thing these leaders have ventured upon. they do so in profound and shocking ignorance.




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Re: Military Coup Under Way In Egypt...............?
By: Cactus Flower
in ALEA
Thu, 04 Jul 13 7:54 PM
Msg. 13928 of 54959

hi doma,

in my mind i was thinking of cheney and bush as originators of the expanded system.

but you are right that clearly many others are participants.

obama has clearly accepted the bush system and merely attempted to legitimise it by giving the system a thin veneer of oversight.

as you say, the europeans seem to be in on it.

"Then we come to the leaders of various EU states. These leaders spent the last week feigning all sorts of righteous indignation over revelations that the NSA was using extreme measures to spy indiscriminately not only on the communications of their citizens en masse but also on their own embassies and consulates - things they learned thanks to Edward Snowden's self-sacrificing choice to reveal to the world what he discovered inside the NSA.

But on Tuesday night, the governments of three of those countries - France, Spain and Portugal - abruptly withdrew overflight rights for an airplane carrying Bolivian President Evo Morales, who was attempting to fly home from a conference in Russia. That conduct forced a diversion of Morales' plan to Austria, where he remained for 13 hours before being able to leave this morning.

These EU governments did that because they suspected - falsely, it now seems - that Morales' plane was also carrying Snowden: the person who enabled them to learn of the NSA spying aimed at their citizens and themselves that they claim to find so infuriating. They wanted to physically prevent Bolivia from considering or granting Snowden's request for asylum, a centuries-old right in international law. Meanwhile, the German government - which has led the ritualistic condemnations of NSA spying that Snowden exposed - summarily rejected Snowden's application for asylum almost as soon as it hit their desks.

A 2013 report from Open Society documents that Spain and Portugal were among the nations who participated in various ways in rendition flights - ie kidnapping - by the US. In particular, the report found, "Spain has permitted use of its airspace and airports for flights associated with CIA secret detention and extraordinary rendition operations." Similarly, "Portugal has permitted use of its airspace and airports for flights associated with CIA extraordinary rendition operations." The French judiciary previously investigated reports that the French government knowingly allowed the CIA to use its airspace for renditions.

So these EU states are perfectly content to allow a country - when it's the US - to use their airspace to kidnap people from around the world with no due process. But they will physically stop a plane carrying the president of a sovereign state - when it's from Latin America - in order to subvert the well-established process for seeking asylum from political persecution (and yes: the US persecutes whistleblowers).

....

As the Index on Censorship said to EU states this morning: "Members of the EU have a duty to protect freedom of expression and should not interfere in an individual's attempts to seek asylum. Edward Snowden is a whistleblower whose free speech rights should be protected not criminalised."

As usual, US officials and their acolytes who invoke "the law" to demand severe punishment for powerless individuals (Edward Snowden, Bradley Manning) instantly exploit the same concept to protect US political officials, their owners and their allies from the worst crimes: torture, warrantless eavesdropping, rendition, systemic financial fraud, deceiving Congress and the US public about their surveillance behavior. If you're spending your time calling for Ed Snowden's head but not James Clapper's, or if you're obsessed with Snowden's fabricated personality attributes (narcissist!) but apathetic about rampant, out-of-control NSA surveillance, it's probably worth spending a few moments thinking about what this priority scheme reveals."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/jul/03/clapper-lying-snowden-eu-bolivia


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