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Re: Racism in the Zimmerman case 

By: Cactus Flower in ALEA | Recommend this post (1)
Sun, 30 Jun 13 6:37 PM | 43 view(s)
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Msg. 13894 of 54959
(This msg. is a reply to 13893 by Cactus Flower)

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by the way, there were at least seven separate serious injuries to z's head (excluding the abrasions). between 4 and 7 swollen bumps, a nose injury and the two cuts.

this was a sustained and brutal assault from a person in a dominant position on top. that the person underneath may reasonably have thought their life was in danger seems obvious. one doesn't wait to be knocked unconscious. he didn't have to have received a brain injury to fear that he was likely to receive one. the bar isn't set in a place where unless you are reduced to a human vegetable, you are guilty of a crime.

you need to act as a reasonable person would.

nothing else matters so much in deciding if this was self-defence as the fact of the injuries he sustained.

a person is innocent unless PROVEN guilty. this is a self-defence situation unless it is proved that it was not. i don't think there's much likelihood of that proof emerging.


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The above is a reply to the following message:
Re: Racism in the Zimmerman case
By: Cactus Flower
in ALEA
Sun, 30 Jun 13 2:57 AM
Msg. 13893 of 54959

Hi clo,

Most of what you say is supposition.

The burden of proof is set very high for murder.

Methinks you are shooting for involuntary manslaughter because you have abandoned malicious intent.

But everything about this looks like self-defence.

M was pummeling Z. He had a broken nose, several welts, abrasions, a couple of nasty cuts. He was dizzy as a result. He was obviously worried about the cost of going to hospital (let's not forget the us health system) and took his chances. That suggests nothing about his fear of being killed up to and including the time he fired his shot. From underneath.

M needed to stop smashing Z's head. He continued his mixed martial arts assault for30 seconds.

Z was losing, in pain, panicked, taking hits to the head. He was in real danger of a brain injury. Z's response looks well within the law.

I think you must have a residual sense that Z is the baddie from the grossly misleading news reports, which suggested Z was hardly scratched (refuted by several photos at the scene) and that he was a racist (a sense that was doctored by ABC and/or CNN). 16 doesn't have to be sweet and innocent. This was a strong young man who seems to have lost his rag. Z finally had to make a decision.

Who in those circumstances would have done otherwise? Clo, you wouldn't. I wouldn't. M left Z no choices. It was survive or die.

And that ain't manslaughter. It's self-defence, however it started.

Re Geragos - yes, but a very good defence attorney. I concur with his judgement. This is more-or-less unwinnable for the prosecution.


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