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Re: History of fighting

By: Cactus Flower in ALEA | Recommend this post (0)
Thu, 06 Jun 13 5:58 PM | 53 view(s)
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Msg. 13573 of 54959
(This msg. is a reply to 13571 by joe-taylor)

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Hi jt,

I am using the evidence to guide me. I have not read the account of Z's attorney.

Wikipedia has an excellent review of the case that makes me think quite differently from the initial press accounts.

eg in terms of context:

"From January 1, 2011 through February 26, 2012, police were called to The Retreat at Twin Lakes 402 times.[71] During the 18 months preceding the February 26 shooting, Zimmerman called the non-emergency police line seven times. On five of those calls, Zimmerman reported suspicious looking men in the area, but never offered the men's race without first being asked by the dispatcher.[86][87][88] Crimes committed at The Retreat in the year prior to Martin's death included eight burglaries, nine thefts, and one shooting.[89] Twin Lakes residents said there were dozens of reports of attempted break-ins, which had created an atmosphere of fear in their neighborhood.[63]

In September 2011, the Twin Lakes residents held an organizational meeting to create a neighborhood watch program. As the only volunteer,[5] Zimmerman was selected by neighbors as the program's coordinator, according to Wendy Dorival, Neighborhood Watch organizer for the Sanford Police Department.[5][90]

Three weeks prior to the shooting, on February 2, 2012, Zimmerman called police to report a young man peering into the windows of an empty Twin Lakes home. Zimmerman was told a police car was on the way and he waited for their arrival. By the time police arrived, the suspect had fled. On February 6, workers witnessed two young black men lingering in the yard of a Twin Lakes resident around the same time her home was burglarized. A new laptop and some gold jewelry were stolen. The next day police discovered the stolen laptop in the backpack of a young black man, which led to his arrest. Zimmerman identified this young man as the same person he had spotted peering into windows on February 2.[63]"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Trayvon_Martin

If you consider the context, Z's actions flow absolutely naturally from them. He didn't have the nefarious purpose you assign to him. He was a local volunteer trying to protect his neighbourhood from crime.

He appears to have been trying to keep track of Martin so that the police could find M. You are assuming a motive to Z that is pure invention. He was a responsible citizen who had no history of the racism you presume. To claim only black people wear hoodies fails your own racism test. Hoodies are worn by all sorts of people. I don't think you are wicked for this reason. Only that you are guilty of making the same sort of general assumptions that everyone does. In this case to promote an argument for which there is no evidence. In the case of Z, there is no reason to suppose he gave a damn about skin colour. He was observing what he thought was a burglary suspect.

It is not illegal to observe a burglary suspect, whatever their age. Least of all as a neighbourhood watch volunteer.

So the mens rea - the criminal intention - just isn't present. One has to be extremely careful not to invent it.

I think it is fairly obvious that the police dispatcher advised Z to get into his car for Z's own protection. He exposed himself to risk by trying to continue to observe the suspect. I think it is fair to guess that a simple explanation for his doing so was to guide the police to the person he was suspicious of. Just as he had tried to do previously.

This is entirely different from performing illegal acts with minors. I believe that Z acted at all times within the meaning of Florida law.




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The above is a reply to the following message:
Re: History of fighting
By: joe-taylor
in ALEA
Thu, 06 Jun 13 12:48 PM
Msg. 13571 of 54959

CF,


We believe that stalking was an applicable term. The 911 operator told Z to stop doing it but he persisted anyway. Also, in the eyes of the law, doing something to a minor does not stop having meaning because you didn't know that they were a minor. As an example, having sex with an underage person is still a crime even if you didn't know that they were underage. In our opinion, the meeting was only accidental from M's perspective. Z had preplanned this sort of thing long before even if the results did not come out as he had expected. Also, it would be interesting to know what Z had planned to do if he caught M actually breaking into someones place of residence. Was Z going to "take the law into his own hands?" Any way this is parsed or sliced, Z initiated this confrontation by his admitted actions against someone who only looked suspicious to him but had apparently done nothing wrong. At the very least, it was a form of profiling that smacks of race due to the fact that it is a known fact that young black men wear hoodies. And, we wish to reinterate that we only have Z's side of the argument about what was said in the exchange between the two individuals. We are reasonably certain if Z had produced a gun and made M aware of it and what Z intended to do with it that M would probably not have assaulted Z. One of the great deterents that the police have is their ability to use superior force against those that they confront. If I were 5'8" and a 6'3" black man were confronting me I would produce the gun immediatly instead of allowing myself to be placed in the situation that Z allowed himself to end up in. Z had control of the situation until he didn't any longer.


Regards,


Joe


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