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Re: cansomeoneexplain*

By: Cactus Flower in ALEA | Recommend this post (0)
Wed, 06 Feb 13 8:20 PM | 91 view(s)
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Msg. 12618 of 54959
(This msg. is a reply to 12617 by joe-taylor)

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Hi JT,

You may have missed the stories this week about the special rules for killing US citizens with drones.

http://motherboard.vice.com/blog/americas-disturbing-rules-for-assassinating-americans

The gap between the rules for foreigners and the rules for Americans is the special protection we were discussing.

Dig pointed out there is a legal distinction here which competes with the notion of due process. Due process has ancient origins and is a key protection for individuals against the state.

"39. No freemen shall be taken or imprisoned or disseised or exiled or in any way destroyed, nor will we go upon him nor send upon him, except by the lawful judgment of his peers or by the law of the land." - Magna Carta

"No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation." - Fifth Amendment to the US Constitution

I am trying to think through the reason for the distinction between US terrorists and foreign ones.

I am not arguing the right of the US to use some means to defend itself against future attacks. A state is almost always justified in protecting its citizens.

But the question how it does so is always in play.

Obviously, some say the US brought its terrorism problems upon itself. That is not an argument I have employed. I have never thought there was a viable justification for terrorism.

At the same time, I have no doubt whatsoever that drone strikes create new terrorists. My usual formulation. For every brother, sister, friend or parent killed you may create 10 new people susceptible to resistance. For every child killed, perhaps 100. There's a reason al qaeda keeps metastasizing. In my view, it is borne of rage, humiliation, the sense of impotence.

There's no cost free form of engagement. Killing people from unmanned aerial vehicles based presumably on limited information at the risk of adding innocent bystanders to the kill list is a new form of justice.

Can you figure why terrorists attack US embassies and consulate offices? Why they attack tourists and foreign people working in the region?

They will find people to kill.

So there is a question about drones. Are they simply displacing murders into more vulnerable populations of US citizens?


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The above is a reply to the following message:
Re: cansomeoneexplain
By: joe-taylor
in ALEA
Wed, 06 Feb 13 7:48 PM
Msg. 12617 of 54959

CF,


During the second world war, many Germans born in america returned to fight for the fatherland, and, many of them were killed by allied troops in the process! When it comes to why the son of al Awlaki was killed, we are operating with incomplete information. We are told by some that he had no terroriwst leanings, however, we do not know that to be a fact. The fact thaat al Awlaki was an American born citizen does not bely the fact that he was an intellectual leader of the radical movement and published constant tirades on the internet that are still being used to this time to recruit the faithful to the fold. He was very high on the United States kill list for a very long time and this idea that he had some special protection because he was a U.S. citizen is a falsehood.

The United States did not start this war that burst into the open on September eleventh, 2001 with the deaths of over three thousand U.S. citizens on American soil. This is a war against stateless bandits bent on as much destruction as they can possibly inflict using any methods that they can muster to do so. It is easily forgotten that bin Laden had been attempting to acquire nuclear weapons almost up until the day that he died! And, he would almost certainly use them.

As far as the use of drones generating more resistace than it extinguishes, we simply do not believe that at all. The resistance has long been there and the several hundred that have been killed by drone attacks just helps to cut off the head of the monster that confronts us.


IOVHO,


Regards,


Joe


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