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Re: responding to the age of the earth

By: Cactus Flower in ALEA | Recommend this post (0)
Thu, 22 Nov 12 9:04 PM | 103 view(s)
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Msg. 11885 of 54959
(This msg. is a reply to 11883 by joe-taylor)

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hi j-t,

interesting post re the responsibility for the vulnerable in seceding states. it's an issue i hadn't thought much about and i suppose a bunch of folks would want to move into one bloc or another.

but if a large majority of folks in texas, say, want to live a particular way, then i think it is a sort of freedom to be allowed to.

but also, the possibility that folks from texas take charge of the us fills me with horror. these folks are the definition of almost everything i disagree with, and to some extent fear. ignorance on stilts. gwb destroyed the world economy in 8 years. never again.

the costs and risks of the former seem far less than those of the latter.

regardless of lincoln and the wrong-headedness of the south with respect to slavery, i think the dixie people had a decent argument that they should be permitted to secede.

as regards ethnic mixes, i think you would be shocked by the extent of racial diversity in countries outside the us. same kinds of issues, although my view is that the main point of tension in the uk has more to do with culture and religion than skin colour. i am sure some would disagree but that's my view.


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The above is a reply to the following message:
Re: responding to the age of the earth
By: joe-taylor
in ALEA
Thu, 22 Nov 12 8:26 PM
Msg. 11883 of 54959

CF,

Just a few thoughts!

It is quite easy to talk of letting the red states go and become their own nation. But, we need to be reminded that we fought a great civil war in this nation that cost hundreds of thousands of lives just over one persons belief that this nation should remain whole--Abraham Lincoln. And, by the end of that war, it had expanded to include the idea that slavery should not exist anymore.

If we let these states go and form their own union we also let go of the ideas that are embodied in the federal government such as civil rights and equal protection under the law. Eighty five percent of the white population in some southern states voted for Mitt Romney in the past election. That means that they voted for his ideas on the forty seven percent being takers, not makers. So, we can assume that under a red state nation that these protections and these entitlements would disappear! Would this result in a great mass migration of people out of the red states. We best remember that the people of the ninth ward down in New Orleans after hurricane Katrina had no way to migrate much of anywhere. So, would they even have the ability to go to the remaining United States that would be left after the secession? So many of these people do not own automobiles nor do they have the money for mass transit. What would become of these souls in a red state world. Would the new red state nation follow what Lincoln once advocated and simply colonize them elsewhere? We have to approach this idea of a red state nation with the realization that the majority of people who live there are quite simply a bunch of racists! Instead, as you suggest, that they might live as red states for a period and then want to rejoin the rest, they might just choose a life that marginalizes the least of those who live among them because of no choice presented to them to do anything otherwise. Just looking at the laws passed in some of these states surpressing the vote since 2010 would lead us to believe in that direction. Just about every president since Harry Truman has fought to expand the rights of minorities. Even George W. Bush fought for an enlightened immigration reform bill. And, minorities include the brown people from south of the border. Would these new red states be able to successfully seal the border as they marginalize those who, in some cases, have lived in the areas that they would rule far longer than many whites have been there ie. New Mexico and Arizona.

CF, you live in a nation that is probably more homogenious than the United States. You do have minorities but probably not in the numbers that we have here so your outlook might be a bit different than many Americans hold. Just like the people of Gaza, in the middle east, many here might vote to leave without fully realizing that they might never be able to get the right to ever return to this nation and its umbrella of protections that have beeen built up over centuries again! Some conservative minorities might vote to leavde only to see their vote taken away from them later after the results are known. There is even the possibility that, with the primitive religious beliefs holding sway in some of these areas, that we might be installing a potential theocracy right here within our own borders as a nation as it is currently made up.

One of the things that frightens me the most about this whole thing is the possibility, given the makeup of those who speak for these people in their constellation of media outlets, that we might be creating a cult instead of a new nation. Lord knows we're not that far from one now, at least in my view!

IOVHO,


Regards,


Joe


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