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Re: lessons of the fast food business

By: Cactus Flower in ALEA | Recommend this post (0)
Fri, 16 Nov 12 2:36 AM | 53 view(s)
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Msg. 11760 of 54959
(This msg. is a reply to 11755 by bridgebuilder)

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hi bridgebuilder,

i remember making these arguments in my days as a libertarian. why have a minimum wage when you can achieve higher employment by lowering wages? let the market decide.

so here we are substituting benefits for money. but it comes to much the same thing. the owner is offering the worker an opportunity by employing them. it's up to them if they take the deal.

this argument seems coherent enough, right.

but first, there's the happiness/civility argument - we don't want to create a society of many serfs and a few rich people - because the idea is to maximise happiness overall rather than to make a small number of people extremely happy and everyone else miserable. we have standards of decency and wish to avoid brutality. and what you describe is the opposite.

and then there are actually hidden social costs to inequality. an unequal society is an unhealthy one. sharing wealth (not so that everyone is equal, but so that inequality is not extreme) gives more people access to surplus capital. having more people with access to funds leads to more ideas seeing the light of day. wealth is created out of the middle class. creating a flatter wealth curve tends to push wealth towards the middle.

it is quite striking in the historical record how the concentration of wealth causes issues. we see much the same thing in the late 1920s and the early 2000s. financial collapse as wealth concentration hits a particular ratio. we see it in the french revolution and in the russian one.

haven't time to continue. but social darwinism really isn't my bag.




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The above is a reply to the following message:
Re: lessons of the fast food business
By: bridgebuilder
in ALEA
Thu, 15 Nov 12 11:52 PM
Msg. 11755 of 54959

Another way to look at it is that these non health care providing employers saved the tax payer from not only footing medical care but from having to provide unemployment/welfare payments to them as well. health insurance is, or is not, part of your compensation package. Why wouldn't the employees at these companies just go work for the starbucks and other health insurance providing employers who clearly have a better compensation package? I would speculate because they cannot get jobs at those places. so they got jobs at the bottom of the barrel places(these are employers that may not be as skilled as their competition and in order to succeed need a lower cost employee.) What's beyond the bottom of the barrel? Unemployment. who pays for unemployment benefits/welfare? The tax payer.
Now you could argue that these low cost bottom of the barrel joints reduce pricing power for the better run benefit paying joints and so they have to run lean and cannot hire as many benefit enjoying employees because they won't retain customers if they start charging $12 for a hamburger in order to afford said employees. so if the bottom of the barrel guys went away the benefit paying guys could possibly raise prices and hire the employees of the bottom of the barrel guys and they would indeed have a job...and benefits. Which is fine...if you like $12 fast food hamburgers.

Just a devil's advocate position...many holes I'm sure.

cheers
bb


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