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Re: Goofy thoughts***

By: Cactus Flower in ALEA | Recommend this post (0)
Wed, 11 Jul 12 3:15 AM | 115 view(s)
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Msg. 08951 of 54959
(This msg. is a reply to 08948 by waveduke)

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But duke,

you are a right winger. The neutral centre is where I am!!

Or maybe it depends upon your perspective. ;-)

at any rate, no dig intended. it was my sense of where you will head once you stop thinking that the poor are addicted to the puny welfare checks they receive; and thus that most poor folks are poor because they don't try; and that welfare and/or distribution are forms of charity rather than enlightened self-interest and a part of the foundation of economic efficiency.

As I said, I think those kinds of things remain the heart of your system and only once you begin to doubt them will you begin to move your politics.

For myself, I learnt a good deal when I discovered that a certain measure of reciprocity and even altruism is actually economically efficient. Cooperation and trust are not the side-show. They are part of the main event. For me, discovering this was the death of the theory that self-interest and greed are the key to a successful society: and I was glad to see it go. What an ugly philosophy it seems once the robe of economic virtue is stripped from it.


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The above is a reply to the following message:
Re: Goofy thoughts***
By: waveduke
in ALEA
Wed, 11 Jul 12 1:48 AM
Msg. 08948 of 54959

Don't think I did not catch the Alea dig. Alea will eventually evolve to a more neutral political position ;) No offense intended to anyone on this board, but there are extreme and in my opinion a bit crazy, philosophies on both sides of the political spectrum. Objectivity frequently disappears on the extremes.

People are wired to choose the path of least resistance, so if something is given, it often displaces what otherwise would have been earned. This is not the result of a nefarious objective of the giver or the receiver. We are stronger collectively when we are less reliant on the hub. The debate centers on on how to best achieve that objective. Related to government, I happen to believe the spectrum has swung too far one way and has put more at risk than intended. Had the gov. teat been available to my grandparents, they might not have ever been weaned. They were better served in the long-run figuring out how to provide for themselves. Again this is not to say government does not have a special responsibility for all its people. However, IMO there is a fine line.

An example of reliance on the hub is energy. We have gained enormous efficiency with the propagation of combustible energy. At the same time, we introduced a risk. If supply is interrupted, everyone is at risk. Life as we know it is at risk. Wars have been the result of this risk. There was a day when people gathered their own energy. It was clearly less efficient, but the system as a whole had less risk. We are now evolving away from the hub again with things such as solar panels, bloom boxes, and other advanced forms of energy. Multiple forms of energy are less risk than single sources of energy. Geographical dispersion is less risky than geographic concentration. With advanced forms of energy, we still have efficiency and we minimize risks to the system as a whole. We are not there yet, be we are knocking on the door. The more people reliant on the government, the more risk there is to the system as whole. The goal of government is to minimize this need while still providing for its citizens.

Trust me, I know poor. There is no single reason for being poor. Whatever the reason, the goal is to minimize its membership. Because there are many causes, there is no single solution and the discussion on it spans more than my last post for a while. In the end, most people want all people to succeed. There is no simple answer on how this is best achieved. I will read any replies, but will take a break from posting…kids and biz.


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