« ALEA Home | Email msg. | Reply to msg. | Post new | Board info. Previous | Home | Next

Re: Goofy thoughts*** 

By: waveduke in ALEA | Recommend this post (1)
Mon, 09 Jul 12 10:48 PM | 82 view(s)
Boardmark this board | The Trust Matrix
Msg. 08929 of 54959
(This msg. is a reply to 08922 by Cactus Flower)

Jump:
Jump to board:
Jump to msg. #

Ha, excuse my intrusion. If I lived on a two person island and we shared a road, we should put forward equal effort to maintain the road – even if my side of the island was nicer because I made it so! A fair tax is probably a flatter tax of some variety. If you have a flatter tax and make more money, you still pay more on an absolute basis. The notion of support for the argument is that you benefit more, even though it could be possible for you to use less government services.

I am an independent voter and I do not favor either party. Both parties have been fiscally irresponsible.

There are certain things society wants, but if we cannot afford them, the price is too high. Good intentions do not always produce good results. I can spoil my kids with a lot of things. That comes with a price. Why work for something if it is just going to be handed to you? We are best off collectively when we are all working and contributing. One less person contributing means everyone else must contribute incrementally more. There has been a gradual increase in social programs that is unsustainable.
Both sets of my now passed away grandparents came to this country with nothing and worked out of a hole. They started by working for milk and butter. It is my generation in our lineage that has finally punched through to higher ground. The expectation is much different today and we are creating a culture of social addiction. It sounds good, but like a drug, it is a bad addiction. We should do everything we can to support ill-fated people, but should do what we can to ensure people do not need their rich uncle sam too much. Sam’s handouts are a trap…a well-intended, but ill-advised trap. The less we collectively need government, the better off we are collectively. That is not a vote for a weak government; I just happen to believe a strong government is one that is needed less. Unfortunately it is much easier to give than to take away and we have a long path of reconciliation that needs to start soon.

You can reference other countries and other times in the USA, but no two scenarios are alike. There are many moving parts in those equations. I have worked with some of the brightest mathematicians and statisticians in the world and the past and other regions are not as predictive as we would like at a such a grand scale. So much so, that you can glean very little useful information from such examples.

Most people rich and poor have good intention and most people have changing notions of tax rates as their social status changes. This is not because they are mean or bad, it is just self preservation. Rich or poor, most people just want the notion of fair, unfortunately fair happens to be shaded by your background and is not black and white.


- - - - -
View Replies (1) »



» You can also:
- - - - -
The above is a reply to the following message:
Re: Goofy thoughts***
By: Cactus Flower
in ALEA
Mon, 09 Jul 12 7:49 PM
Msg. 08922 of 54959

Hi duke,

I am not snackman! And you are not on WAVX DD. Deletions are therefore unnecessary. :-)

By the way, the US has been moving away from the so-called American Dream even as inequality has been exacerbated by lowered tax rates on very high income earners.

You have a better chance of climbing the social ladder in countries like Norway with higher tax regimes and stronger support for people lower on the income scale. Indeed, US social strata are increasingly ossified.

http://www.pewtrusts.org/news_room_detail.aspx?id=31110

See page 13 of the link below which shows that tax rates on the very wealthy have halved since 1960.

http://elsa.berkeley.edu/~saez/piketty-saezJEP07taxprog.pdf

The wealthy pay more as a proportion of total taxes because they have received a larger share of the total pie. The growth of income amongst the wealthy has increased faster than the rate of growth of their taxes. So there's been a net wealth transfer in favour of the top 1% in US society at the same time as a relative reduction in support for public goods. And at a cost of less mobility.

I'm sure the 99% would happily pay more taxes if they could get a bigger share of the pie. Or even the same share as they had 30 years ago.

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2011/10/26/nyregion/the-new-gilded-age.html

In sum, the US economy has done better when the slope of inequality is less extreme. And it has done catastrophically badly when the top 1% corral most of the rewards of US productivity.

So a less extreme net rewards curve is likely to result in a more fluid society and a higher growth economy.

In short, raise taxes on the 1% for a healthier society.


« ALEA Home | Email msg. | Reply to msg. | Post new | Board info. Previous | Home | Next