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Re: Genetic drift, one common ancestor

By: DigSpace in ALEA | Recommend this post (0)
Mon, 07 May 12 10:12 PM | 75 view(s)
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Msg. 07688 of 54959
(This msg. is a reply to 07684 by Cactus Flower)

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LUCA is a proposed point of convergence, not to be confused with circumstances prior to that point.

So while LUCA describes DNA as the hereditary material and so on, it is a well held notion that earlier thingy's and events may well have been of an RNA world.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RNA_world_hypothesis

As RNA has not only the ability to provide hereditary information, like DNA, but to be auto catalytic, like proteins.

But taking a step back, current hypotheis largely put extant hominids, of which there is only us, s having come from a remarkably small breeding population of some 600 individuals dating somewhere very roughly around 100k years ago.

But we have the bones, the lice, the tools and the art, from well before them, from erectus habilis and and so on.

When we look at that choke point, the 600 individuals or so from 100k years ago or so, it is not to say that that represents human evolution, from there forward, rather that for whatever reason what we have today genetically maps back to then and there, but does not speak at all towards the variety and disposition of any variety of other hominids.

LUCA says nothing about much before LUCA. To so concluse would be to look at us, look at our DNA, observe that we tracked back to about 600 folks about 100k years ago and say that there were not other homids ... "but I am not sure if there is evidence of that. I think not".

Obviously given the recency of hominids, we have evidence (bones), but I know of nobody that pretends that LUCA represented the first only novel event in any way shape form or matter. LUCA is simply a choke point, nothing extant is without travelling through LUCa lineaeg-wise, but certainly we agree their was homo habilis, homo erectus, etc all of which predated the hominid choke point of 100k years ago, the presence of the choke point says nothing about anything before it.

That requires independent direct evidence. 4 billion year old independent molecular evidence is hard to come buy, but again, I am aware of nobody that postulates that there were not a plethora of potential solutions of which one emerged as a consequence of drift and selection.

The notion that may have been many 'creation' events is easy to rationalize, more difficult is to explain why there is more than just one single life form. This massive statistical and selective tendency towards one would make LUCA early, and there is just no reasonable way around it.

Importantly, LUCA is not the original life form, it is the chock point through which all current life forms share a path. that is all, no more, no less.

My divergence from neanderthal predates my 100k yr old mandatory checkpoint for extant hominds, but that does not say there was never neanderthal or even vaguely suggest otherwise.


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The above is a reply to the following message:
Re: Genetic drift, one common ancestor
By: Cactus Flower
in ALEA
Mon, 07 May 12 9:32 PM
Msg. 07684 of 54959

As I understand it, a unique tree of life is what we are left with. I guess it is possible that our tree replaced precursors, but I am not sure if there is evidence of that. I think not. At any rate, the postulated last common ancestor seems surprisingly sophisticated.

Forgive me as in matters biological I don't have the memory so much as I do for history and so I have to lean on sources, here's what I read about the original life form:

The genetic code was based on DNA.
The DNA was composed of four nucleotides (deoxyadenosine, deoxycytidine, deoxythymidine and deoxyguanosine), to the exclusion of other possible deoxynucleotides.
The genetic code was composed of three-nucleotide codons, thus producing 64 different codons. Since only 20 amino acids were used, multiple codons code for the same amino acids.
The DNA was kept double-stranded by a template-dependent DNA polymerase.
The integrity of the DNA was maintained by a group of maintenance enzymes, including DNA topoisomerase, DNA ligase and other DNA repair enzymes. The DNA was also protected by DNA-binding proteins such as histones.
The genetic code was expressed via RNA intermediates, which were single-stranded.
RNA was produced by a DNA-dependent RNA polymerase using nucleotides similar to those of DNA with the exception of thymidine in DNA was replaced by uridine in RNA.
Note however that other studies suggest that LUCA may have lacked DNA and been defined wholly through RNA [10]
The genetic code was expressed into proteins.
All other properties of the organism were the result of protein functions.
Proteins were assembled from free amino acids by translation of an mRNA by ribosomes, tRNA and a group of related proteins.
Ribosomes were composed of two subunits, one big and one small.
Each ribosomal subunit was composed of a core of ribosomal RNA surrounded by ribosomal proteins.
The RNA molecules (rRNA and tRNA) played an important role in the catalytic activity of the ribosomes.
Only 20 amino acids were used, to the exclusion of countless non-standard amino acids.
Only the L-isomers of the amino acids were used.
Glucose could be used as a source of energy and carbon; only the D-isomer was used.
ATP was used as an energy intermediate.
There were several hundred protein enzymes which catalyze chemical reactions that extract energy from fats, sugars, and amino acids, and that synthesize fats, sugars, amino acids, and nucleic acid bases using arbitrary chemical pathways.
The cell contained a water-based cytoplasm that was surrounded and effectively enclosed by a lipid bilayer membrane.
Inside the cell, the concentration of sodium was lower, and potassium was higher, than outside. This gradient was maintained by specific ion pumps.
The cell multiplied by duplicating all its contents followed by cellular division.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Last_universal_ancestor

That's a fairly amazing starting point, isn't it.

It will be interesting if we learn that Mars has its own independent tree and if it resembles life on earth.


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