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Re: So in sum

By: faul in ALEA | Recommend this post (0)
Wed, 08 Feb 12 8:56 PM | 76 view(s)
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Msg. 06627 of 54959
(This msg. is a reply to 06606 by Cactus Flower)

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Alea.....afraid there is such a thing as negative rates.

You will be paying the government & banks an interest
rate for them to keep your money or buy their bonds...
Banks are already charging multi million dollar account
customers a negative rate.....

Oh & the FBI have now said that people who believe that the
country should return to a gold standard are potential
terrorists.......

You make take negative interest rates & declaration of Gold
Bugs as terrorists as a healthy dollar signal........i don't.

Treasury Ponders Negative Interest Rates
By ANNIE LOWREY
A curious tidbit from a Treasury release this morning:

The question was asked if it made sense for Treasury to permit bids and awards at negative interest rates in marketable Treasury bill auctions. [A Treasury employee] noted that there were operational issues associated with such a rule change, but that the hurdles were not insurmountable. It was the unanimous view of the committee that Treasury should modify auction regulations to permit negative rate bidding and awards in Treasury bill auctions as soon as feasible.
Put simply, the Treasury Borrowing Advisory Committee, composed mostly of Wall Street types, is urging that investors be allowed to pay the government for the privilege of lending it money. For example, an investor would be able to bid and then pay the government $101 for a $100 Treasury bill.

It sounds a bit crazy. After all, a dollar bill is a perfect substitute for a zero-interest Treasury security. But Treasury bills have occasionally traded in the secondary market at negative yields, most recently in December. And at last month’s auction of 10-year Treasury inflation-protected bonds, investors accepted a real yield of negative 0.046 percent. If there is inflation over the period, however, those investors will get back more dollars than they invested. Those who buy a normal Treasury bill at a negative rate, on the other hand, would be assured of getting back less than they paid for it — unless they sell it to someone else for more, of course.

Chalk it all up to the extraordinary demand for and very high prices of United States government debt, driven by investors’ concerns about the economy, a flight to dollar-denominated assets and foreign governments’ insatiable appetite for American bonds, among other trends.

Some other countries already allow negative interest rates. Germany, for instance, lets investors bid more than its short-term “Bubills” are worth, giving the securities negative yields.

A Treasury official said in the release that it would consider whether and how to facilitate the negative interest rates in a May meeting.


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The above is a reply to the following message:
Re: So in sum
By: Cactus Flower
in ALEA
Mon, 06 Feb 12 8:22 PM
Msg. 06606 of 54959

Hi doma,

Well, this is the refrain you have repeated since entering the conversation.

You have insights which the "sheeple" do not.

Other folks' education is worthless.

Some unidentified group controls people's minds.

Education is brainwashing.

My initial thought was - doma is immunising himself from other views here. He is trying to belittle anyone who disagrees with him. I will turn his tactic back on him, for instance by showing him just how dependent his views are eg over employment, and that his theories have some big holes in them. Let's see how he reacts.

But now you have identified the historical reason for this, I guess. Which helps explain things, and - if I am lucky - maybe provides a bridge to a better place.

Look. No one here should hold your education against you. In fact, I had no idea you left school at 16 (if you told me, forgive me, I had forgotten), and it is not in my mind. If you were able to be inside my mind, you would know that however much I seem to know, I know how little I know as well. I know I know less than 1% of 1% of 1% of 1% of 1% of everything that is out there. So it's not like you are talking to a guy who knows much of anything.

My own feeling is that folks get educated right the way through life. But everyone learns different things.

So some areas you will know better than me. Some areas I will know better than you. I assume equality - not on every topic - but in sum.

We come here, throw facts and ideas into the stew, and share what we think we know - and learn, where we think we can, something new.

Having thrown them into the mix, your ideas add a flavour. If they are good ones, that's good news. If they aren't, I will tell you what I think. Enough with the aniseed, okay. Too much paprika. God, you didn't add broccoli, did you?

If a person discovers that there's a flaw in their ideas, there's no shame in modifying them. That's what this should be about, right. If I am wrong, that's okay. I've discovered something. Now I can improve my theory.

Why not start out here assuming I am your friend and wish you well? That's what I want, at least. And that you should treat me the same way. No one here is stupid, simply because they disagree. No one here is under thought control. No one is brainwashed. We all have opinions. And they differ from one another. It's a polyglot world out there.

If I disagree with you, I'm not making a comment about you. I am challenging your idea. Hopefully, we improve our ideas by having them tested. That's the purpose of having a board, right. You surely experience that many people think your astronaut god theory is peculiar. But at least you are in company with at least one person who thinks the stories about Jhwh are a bit weird also. That's me. But I am at least polite to people who believe in the God of the Old Testament and I get what I can from the occasional shafts of genuine wisdom that is in the text. And from my own perspective, while I don't agree with your ideas, I had a chance to do some research on things like early mining and chromosomal fusion! That was fun for me.

Now we are looking at economics. This is an area I know a little. Perhaps enough to get myself in trouble. But why not make this one a conversation that is about itself, rather than about you or me?

With respect to your point.

The reasons yields lower is that people are competing to purchase the asset and thereby raising its price. So low yields imply the high value of the debt.

Yes, the government buys a portion of its own debt. But the Chinese also buy it as do mutual funds. And they seem to respect the pricing.

As far as negative interest rates are concerned, no such thing as far as I know. This is why they call it the zero lower bound. That's the issue which makes QE make sense in a deflationary economy. Hopefully, it's a temporary measure which gets unwound as the economy recovers. Are you thinking about real interest rates? ie rates of interest taking account of inflation


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