« ALEA Home | Email msg. | Reply to msg. | Post new | Board info. Previous | Home | Next

Re: Astonishing GOP field

By: xcslewis in ALEA | Recommend this post (0)
Thu, 20 Oct 11 12:34 AM | 36 view(s)
Boardmark this board | The Trust Matrix
Msg. 06076 of 54959
(This msg. is a reply to 06075 by Cactus Flower)

Jump:
Jump to board:
Jump to msg. #

Hi alea,

Yep you pretty much understand my view. I have no problem whatever with a group or individuals freely pursuing a collective good. In may even be a noble pursuit.

I believe Ayn Rand recognized an individual may even choose for themselves to place the welfare of others ahead of themselves; for example, their child or other loved/admired person. But it must be that person's choice to do so.

My problem is with government selection of a good that is pursued and the coercive power government possesses to pursue that good. Inevitably it leads to the politicalizaton of the pursuit.

For example, education is good. However, government involvement in education has resulted in an education system operated by and for the benefit of the teachers union, not the students. There are many good teachers but they have little choice but to participate in the govenment run system. They are influenced to vote based on their own economic interests not the collective good.

I could go on and on.

There are collective goals that are good. However government is not the proper agent to pursue those goals and in the end the pursuit of the good is simply thwarted. Then we come up with some new government plan to throw more money at a new problem.

On another topic.

Material wealth is created only by human effort to alter the resources of the world the improve the quality of human life. That wealth thus created can be exchanged by the means of a currency that acts a temporary store of value.

Wealth is not created by providing the means of demanding wealth to someone that has not put forth the effort to produce wealth, but rather providing fiat currency that has as its only store of value the declaration by the government that it is legal tender and that it is the only means by which the taxes demanded by the government can be satisfied.

Effectively fiat currency enslaves those who have created wealth to those who may not have performed any effort whatsoever.

Sorry for rambling. Out of time for now.


- - - - -
View Replies (1) »



» You can also:
- - - - -
The above is a reply to the following message:
Re: Astonishing GOP field
By: Cactus Flower
in ALEA
Wed, 19 Oct 11 11:33 PM
Msg. 06075 of 54959

Hi csl,

I think I understand you pretty well. I just don't agree with you.

Here's how I see you thinking: you have a number of principles - things like minimalist government, low taxes, individual responsibility, property rights, markets are always right, hard work and thrift etc.

You see these as inviolable.

You build your politics around them.

They lead you to believe that the libertarian idea is the answer.

For someone like me who believes virtues pull upon us from various directions, and that there's legitimacy to competing ideas such as public goods, the regulation of negative externalities etc., then you have to strike a balance in your politics. The virtues of individualism are important, but so are the benefits of some kinds of collective action. Paying taxes is worthwhile. Governments do some good but they shouldn't exclude free markets. You end up trying to figure how to get the most benefit out of each thing.

I think that many people implicitly understand that reality is made the way people like me observe it. It isn't refinable into unique principles the way libertarians which it to be. It's a mish-mash. We do the best we can. We live beyond Eden. There's a lot of luck in life. Sometimes we need a bit of help. Some solutions don't fit inside a market model. etc.

Ayn Rand just didn't get it right. She fled the extremes of collectivism and escaped to an imaginary realm of muscular individualism at the opposite extreme. But she forgot the in-between world, in which folks inhabit the temperate zones between these poles and in which there aren't final answers.

We just sway back and forth in the breeze of life, not pretending to know whence the wind came from or where it will end up, but enjoying its warmth or its chill depending upon the season.


« ALEA Home | Email msg. | Reply to msg. | Post new | Board info. Previous | Home | Next