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Re: 13 Years Rotting in Jail...

By: oldCADuser in FFFT | Recommend this post (0)
Sat, 24 Sep 11 12:28 AM | 86 view(s)
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Msg. 34080 of 65535
(This msg. is a reply to 34076 by Decomposed)

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You miss the point all together. If a person is innocent than society has an obligation to correct that mistake, period. To do otherwise would be barbaric and unconscionable. And as for whether I have a close family member who may be be in prison, IT'S NONE OF YOUR DAMN BUSINESS!!!!!!!! But to even suggest that the ONLY reason that someone would have this concern is because of some personal family situation is pathetic at best. It implies that you don't really care what happens to anyone but yourself. They have a name for people who behave in this manner. And when I said that society needed to err on the side of the potential innocent, it did NOT mean that I think we should just let everyone go free. Hardly. What it means that we must make the phrase 'guilty beyond a reasonable doubt' mean what it says. We have a justice system based on the assumption that ANY and ALL persons are innocent UNTIL the state can demonstrate 'beyond a reasonable doubt' that the person is guilty. It does NOT require that defendant PROVE 'beyond a reasonable doubt' that he is innocent. In fact, a defendant is not required to do anything. The entire burden of proof lies with the state. That is the system that we have in this country. Now is it flawed in how it's sometime applied? Of course it is, which means that as a society looking for justice and NOT revenge, as that has absolutely NO PLACE IN THE LAW, we must make sure that justice is served. And it is NOT served when the innocent are convicted of crimes they did NOT commit since this also means that the actual guilty party was allowed to go free, so how's THAT square with your idea that we must never forget about the victim?

Or perhaps you're like the French General Mireau in Humphrey Cobb's book set in WWI 'Paths of Glory', where he ordered 3 innocent men court martialed for cowardice so as to set an example for others who might have actually committed acts of cowardice but his attitude was that he couldn't shoot everyone in the army or they couldn't continue the war, so it was better to shoot just a few, even though he knew that they had been simply chosen as random and were probably totally innocent. However, in his mind that was not as important as getting the message across to those who actually might be cowards. Where was the concern for the innocent there? How is your attitude any different?




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The above is a reply to the following message:
Re: 13 Years Rotting in Jail...
By: Decomposed
in FFFT
Fri, 23 Sep 11 11:03 PM
Msg. 34076 of 65535

re: "If we have an imperfect judicial system then we have NO choice but to err on the side of the potential innocent."

We DO have an imperfect judicial system. Indeed, what, in human experience, has ever been otherwise?

Thankfully, your conclusion is wrong.

Rare mistakes get made in trying people... but they're rare. Sometimes the system convicts an innocent person, but it's a risk that has to be taken because it is IMPERATIVE that we have a functioning judicial system - one that strives for fair treatment of the accused *AND* the victim.

You seem to have forgotten about the victim.

That's a glaring omission, so again I have to wonder. Do you have you have friends or family in jail, OCU?

If the justice system is flawed, the only fix I'd like to see would be the use of professional, trained jurors. And I honestly don't understand why any objective person would want it otherwise.

Your wish to "always" err on the side of a "potential innocent"? That would be lunacy. As we've discussed in recent days, eyewitness testimony is uncertain... confessions are uncertain... circumstantial evidence is uncertain...

The courts would be unable to convict anyone.


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