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Re: Keynesian economics is not what many think 

By: tkc in ALEA | Recommend this post (1)
Sat, 13 Aug 11 6:37 PM | 43 view(s)
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Msg. 05614 of 54959
(This msg. is a reply to 05613 by Cactus Flower)

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Thanks CF, your reply provides some clarity and it's appreciated. I still am having difficulty w/ the concept as it is so multifaceted and complex. Not arguing, attempting to understand.
While property values have deflated, absolutely everything else I purchase has increased. The "cost of living" has decreased according to the Gov't,thus 3 yrs. in a row of no COLA for SS recipients or for so many employees. But that's because the cost of food and energy isn't included while "housing" costs are. I pay more for food, gasoline, G&E, cable, telephone, newspaper, water & sewer, property taxes, medical care and drugs. Commodity prices has soared. Everything I see is inflationary.
You state "that people's behaviour changes when the value of money increases relative to the value of other assets ie in a deflationary environment. That is the circumstance in which they will tend to hold onto their cash." So, that's where my problem lies. I don't think people are "holding" on to their money, they have less discretionary money to spend. This and high unemployment, increased employee productivity result in less consumer spending, less Gov't revenue. Less spending, less Gov't revenue result in employee layoffs and thus more demand destruction, and a downward spiral to deflation. That should mean price stabilization or reduction, but it hasn't.

In a consumer driven economy the consumer needs money to spend. It's likely my sophism, but it appears a chicken/egg problem. The economy can't grow w/o demand. Demand won't increase w/o more discretionary money. That requires growth, growth to hire - and back to Gov't stimulus. It's circuitous. So the Fed, absent Congressional will, attempts to stimulate via increasing the money supply to inflate the economy and lowering interest rates to encourage investment. Which are inflationary. It seems they are attempting to inflate us out of the mess.

Yes I'm confused. I'm going to read some about "zero bound" maybe that will help. Obviously I'm too simplistic at this point to get it.


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The above is a reply to the following message:
Re: Keynesian economics is not what many think
By: Cactus Flower
in ALEA
Sat, 13 Aug 11 9:59 AM
Msg. 05613 of 54959

Hi tkc,

You are welcome to disagree if you wish. It isn't a problem for me if you argue. Disagreement is constructive.

In this case, I am afraid I entirely mis-wrote part of a sentence, which is probably why you didn't understand my point!

"People's behaviour changes when money loses its value" is true, but it isn't the case I was discussing. I'm kind of astonished I wrote it that way without noticing, but I was dashing out at the time so probably rushed it. Anyway, my apologies. Now I am back and hopefully you will see what I was meaning to say - and the rest should fall into place.

What I should have written is that people's behaviour changes when the value of money increases relative to the value of other assets ie in a deflationary environment. That is the circumstance in which they will tend to hold onto their cash. In those circumstances, investment is unappealing. People hoard their cash because it increases in value simply by storing it.

So the actions of the Fed are designed to counteract this tendency. They have lowered interest rates and have issued paper in order to make hoarding less appealing. Now they have acted "irresponsibly" by suggesting they will not raise interest rates for a couple of years. So they are courting inflation. Their problem is deflation. Increasing the money supply, stimulating the economy and guaranteeing low interest rates are deliberately INFLATIONARY actions, as you say.

The zero bound is a concept associated with a deflationary environment.

High levels of inflation and stagflation are different environments to the one we face. When those conditions prevail and persist, you want your Federal Reserve to appear responsible in the conventional way. You were right to be confused!

Otherwise, I think my posts were consistent in implying the problem we face is deflationary.


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