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Re: Downgrade is meaningless

By: killthecat in ALEA | Recommend this post (0)
Tue, 09 Aug 11 5:53 PM | 16 view(s)
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Msg. 05597 of 54959
(This msg. is a reply to 05596 by Cactus Flower)

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Cactus:

You have fallen into the same misconception as virtually everybody in the nation who lacking an understanding of money, capital, what the bailout entailed, and who the beneficiaries were, equate the Obama Stimulus (and possibly TARP) as the full extent of the bailout. It's like the $100 billion dollar per day discount window didn't even exist

One illustration: let's assume I am a Wall Street entity, and borrow a billion dollars at 1/2% interest from the Fed, and am also provided a billion dollar guarantee that if I invest the money in U.S. equities and lose, the Fed will pick up the tab. Also assume that I am a Wall Street insider with great connections within the street and also within the administration. Alternately, I can borrow the billion at 1/2% and invest the money in government securities at say 2, 3, 4 or 5%.

I'll let you fill in the rest...


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The above is a reply to the following message:
Re: Downgrade is meaningless
By: Cactus Flower
in ALEA
Tue, 09 Aug 11 5:35 PM
Msg. 05596 of 54959

Hi cat,

Well, the meanings of words matters and commitments means something different from stimulus. A form of protection or shield, such as a guarantee, is something different to a loan which is more of a spear, and adding them together as Bloomberg has done is pretty weird, in my view. One of the two (ie the loan) is a financial event in which money is exchanged. The other is a contingency against an event which, absent the event actually occurring, costs pretty much nothing.

TARP involved actual money. And TARP, after all, is mostly recovered at this point.

The US government's multi-trillion dollar guarantees have not crystallised thus far and I don't see anyone claiming they are likely to, if they have not already expired. The fact the US offered guarantees which have not crystallised thus far means that no money has been printed and therefore that this protective governmental shield has not transformed itself into any kind of US debt. So while the guarantee reduced risk, I don't think it is quite proper to treat it as an expense.

An uncrystallised government guarantee is perhaps more analagous to a very cheap form of insurance. We don't count the earthquakes unless the rock actually moves.

So if we are talking about actual stimulus, which I would define as actual net government expenditures, the outlay was, I believe, less than $1tn.

All economics demands a financial system. We all saw what happened after Lehmann. I don't hear many folks who still believe we should have let the market destroy everything. The government's intervention to save Wall Street from itself was a great success. What they have failed to do, in my view, is to reform the financial industry sufficiently - although the good news is that the highest risks are now borne by hedge funds, and these may be allowed to fail.


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