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Re: Bonuses for Billionaires (massively edited)

By: fizzy in ROUND | Recommend this post (0)
Sat, 23 Jul 11 6:48 PM | 75 view(s)
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Msg. 34023 of 45644
(This msg. is a reply to 34021 by clo)

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Clo,

I think I agree with everything you said here.

I am particularly appalled by corporate power -- AND EVEN MORE SO BY THE FACT THAT EFFECTIVELY NOBODY QUESTIONS THE "RIGHTNESS" OF IT. Once again, as with the Fed and "free markets" (when they aren't), we have been brainwashed and socialized so nobody questions their existence. The corporations of 200 years ago didn't have this power; they were severely constrained and, thus, seldom used.

The price for "limited liability", the ability to play shell games (hide the cheese), immortality, etc. should be VERY high; high enough to make people think thrice before setting up a corporation instead of doing business as a sole proprietor or partnership. There should be something like a mandatory tax on revenue, and it should be significant. Note I am not saying "profit" -- which google, et. al. have gamed with the "Irish Sandwich" and other shell tricks. I have created and I own C corps for their advantages but I am not taken in with the idea that they OUGHT to exist in their current form.

But doesn't that just mean that other countries will get all the corporations, the manufacturing, etc? Yeah, it probably does, EXCEPT that doing manufacturing in China doesn't help you too much if you don't have anyone to sell to. Some favor tariffs -- but I'm not sure how to set value on the imported items and I can think of ways to game that. I favor NO TAXES ON ORDINARY INCOME BY CITIZENS. Local corps should have tax and be otherwise restrained. IMPORTS NEED SOMETHING LIKE A 50% VAT WITH NO EXCEPTIONS.

Maybe you choose to manufacture in China because you can get state subsidies (fiat money, remember) and no pollution controls and slave labor there. That translates to low cost. Now you want to import the low cost items into the US as an individual and claim that the markup is all "ordinary income"? There needs to be a way to block that strategy completely. Imported items need to be taxed highly. I'd say 50% is a good place to start. Some people will try to find a way to game that, too, so it will take a little more thought. However, I'm confident it can -- and should -- be done.

The Founders had remarkable wisdom. Common law severely constrained corporations. Individuals had NO income tax but corporations WERE taxed. It isn't coincidence that that has effectively been reversed, Clo, and that is the tipoff which points to what must be undone. To support Obama with his "tax the rich" schemes is to play into the hands of the super-rich and the corporations. You need to start with the realization, Clo, that Obama, Clinton, etc. are all purchased tools...wolves in sheeple clothing. Think like a criminal -- Obama and, particularly, his sponsors do ... it comes naturally to them because they are.

Clo, you seem to systematically fail to recognize that the OBVIOUS and USUAL vector for corruption and gaming is, in fact, the government itself. Looking to a larger government to "regulate" better with "more laws" FEEDS the very criminal minds and processes which you claim to oppose. In virtually every case when you see corruption or gaming it is corruption OF the government and gaming OF the government. You cannot EVER fix that by giving the government more power. Isn't that just logical? You fix it by giving the government LESS power, less revenue, less freedom.

The price of 911 shouldn't have been creation of a new government bureaucracy but evisceration of government bureaucracy. I think it would be a GREAT idea of make "civil servants" (who aren't generally civil and certainly aren't treated like servants) PERSONALLY LIABLE for mistakes they make in their job. They "mistakenly" screwed up or "mistakenly" exceeded Constitutional bounds? Sue their ass and sue the ass of their superior as well. Forget suing the government directly; it is too big and just extracts the money to hire its lawyers and pay its penalties with more FORCED taxation. "Civil servants" should be individually and severally liable. Didn't we learn ANYTHING from the standard defense by the Nazi death camp employees that they were "just doing their job"? You want the perquisites of being a "civil servant"? There shouldn't be any perquisites. Decent people should be given reason to shun working for bureaucracies.

This is probably all counter intuitive to some, but you need to question if that is "intuition" or brainwashing you are following. The government itself is, as I said, the lynchpin of virtually every bit of corruption and market "error". PigMen LOVE big government and encourage socialism because it makes it SO much easier for THEM to game the system and screw the "little people" socialism purports to serve. Socialism is a near perfect system of CONTROL of PEOPLE as you get at least half the population to enthusiastically participate in the corruption and enslavement. Socialism is brainwashing and corruption brought to its logical conclusion. People who think they are "free" but, in fact, are completely enslaved -- self enslaved -- make the very best CopperTops. Think like a criminal!

I regard figuring out how to effectively constrain C corps -- along with figuring out how to constrain other Fictitious Entities, notably governments and PACs -- as one of the central challenges for humanity in the future. Humans should have freedom and should be treated much BETTER under the law than Fictitious Entities. Right now the reality is completely reversed.


I have come to realize that men are not born to be free. Liberty is a need felt by a small class of people whom nature has endowed with nobler minds than the mass of men. -Napoleon




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The above is a reply to the following message:
Re: Bonuses for Billionaires
By: clo
in ROUND
Sat, 23 Jul 11 3:01 PM
Msg. 34021 of 45644

fizzy,

The higher taxes on capital gains, would IMO, create a healthier market. Instead of folks using it as a slot machine, they would actually look to INVEST.

Here's another idea; if you wantto do business (be employed by) the government, your company needs to pay taxes here. GE is an example.
Any corporation sucking off the "cream" needs to pay their fair share!

We need to stop sending money to foreign countries for (nation building).
Israel doesn't need money from us, their economy is doing well & they have a military to defend themselves.

fizzy, the reason inflation is still low, because workers have been working harder with no raises to speak of. This isn't goiing to end well. clo


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