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Re: The Keynesian Growth Discount  

By: fizzy in ROUND | Recommend this post (1)
Sat, 30 Apr 11 11:24 AM | 48 view(s)
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Msg. 32752 of 45510
(This msg. is a reply to 32751 by atomicbob)

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"I tend to agree/like most of this, except I don't think even reagan style policies can pull us out of this death spiral."

Forgive me, please, for being blunt but your understanding of history and Reagan's role in "fixing" the US economy appears to be sadly mistaken.

Look at a long term chart of debt and you will see that REAGAN was responsible for the transition of the US from a net creditor to a net debtor nation. By the time he left office we were already the world's greatest DEBTOR nation. He bloated government and deficit spending. This showed up as "growth" because his vast expansion of government was fed with credit from OTHER nations via his Plaza Accord.

The idea that Reagan healed the economy through smaller government, lower taxes, and "free enterprise" is a corruptive piece of propaganda. All the facts are there to see but nobody WANTS to see: Reagan gave the economy and ESPECIALLY THE GOVERNMENT a big dose of "meth" in the form of BORROW and SPEND. Now the bill is due on those credit cards but nobody wants to face it. Even the Democrats don't want to see the truth; they just want to continue the government bloat and deficit spending -- partying and directing it toward THEIR favorite PigMen, wars, and transfer payments (aka rob from Peter to pay Paul), of course.

Uploaded Image

The image is from wikipedia. I was looking for a chart showing the transition of the US from the world's biggest creditor to the world's biggest debtor, which I've seen previously. This does the same job but may not be quite as clear about the damage done by Reagan.

Clinton's performance on this chart also deserves some comment. Yes, Clinton DID reverse the trend of US government deficit spending but HOW did he do that? He did it by vastly expanding government revenue. How did he do that? CLINTON SHRUNK THE FEDERAL DEFICIT SPENDING BY BLOWING THE BIGGEST STOCK MARKET BUBBLE THE WORLD HAD EVER SEEN. Clinton APPEARED to reduce the government deficit as all the stock churning and bank speculation (remember Clinton disemboweled Glass-Steagall) created a TEMPORARY surge in government revenue ... and the 2001 NASDAQ crash was the inevitable outcome, with over 7 TRILLION dollars of putative wealth destroyed and the economy left in a shambles. If you take the 7 trillion Clinton's regime was responsible for DESTROYING and ADD IT BACK IN TO THE GOVERNMENT DEFICIT you see a clearer picture of Clinton's legacy. But nobody DOES this simple and commonsense bit of arithmetic.

Dems like to forget Clinton's CREATION of the biggest economic bubble the world had seen to that time and that his increased tax revenues were derived from that same bubble. They like to dwell on the economic surge and SHORT TERM deficit behavior but take no "credit" for the NASDAQ crash and payback!!!

Clinton thus shows up on this chart as some sort of economic wizard. That is mostly mistaken. He was the Democratic equivalent of Reagan: like Reagan he gets credit for "fixing" the economy when, in fact, most of what BOTH did was BORROW FROM THE FUTURE WITH INTEREST DUE.

The interest is now OVER due. The best we can do now is LEARN that neither Reagan nor Clinton was good for the economy. Clinton, like Regan, was a Ponzi master: reaping credit for economic health when there was, in fact, only borrowing-from-the-future going on!

Bush and now Obama have been absolute tragedies -- as well as criminals and traitors. With 2012 coming up and the US in an incredible hole, both economically and politically, it would be nice to think that the American people are wiser and awake. Unfortunately, there is no indication the vast majority have learned anything or become any less gullible. Republicans ignorantly idolize Reagan as Democrats ignorantly idolize Clinton. Most Republicans remain unrepentant about Bush as most Democrats continue to support Obama. We are in sad shape and the state of the economy and deficit and dollar are, sadly, the LEAST of our problem. Our fundamental problem is OURSELVES. We haven't learned anything ... but bad habits and rude manners.


I have come to realize that men are not born to be free. Liberty is a need felt by a small class of people whom nature has endowed with nobler minds than the mass of men. -Napoleon




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The above is a reply to the following message:
Re: The Keynesian Growth Discount
By: atomicbob
in ROUND
Sat, 30 Apr 11 4:50 AM
Msg. 32751 of 45510

I tend to agree/like most of this, except I don't think even reagan style policies can pull us out of this death spiral. At least we still had a little bit of manufacturing back then. We have lost almost everything now. Cant all be lawyers, doctors and fast food workers.

Money just swirls around a bit, from one service sector to the next, and then goes somewhere else.

Or is my thinking misconstrued?



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