« GRITZ Home | Email msg. | Reply to msg. | Post new | Board info. Previous | Home | Next

Re: Russias summer offensive in Ukraine underwhelms ; but Kyiv wont be celebrating

By: Zimbler0 in GRITZ | Recommend this post (0)
Mon, 30 Jun 25 7:01 AM | 1 view(s)
Boardmark this board | Grits Breakfast of Champeens!
Msg. 10599 of 10599
(This msg. is a reply to 10597 by Fiz)

Jump:
Jump to board:
Jump to msg. #

Fiz > So, you've swallowed, and then regurgitated repeatedly, a lot of B.S. about how Russia STOLE Crimea from Ukraine. Doesn't it upset you that you were deceived?


I don't believe I was 'deceived'. After the USSR imploded Crimea was recognized as part of Ukraine. In 2014 Russia stole it - via armed invasion.

And then there is this :

>>>
http://united24media.com/perspectives/why-does-russia-want-crimea-so-badly-cambridge-professor-rory-finnin-unpacks-the-crimea-is-ours-mindset-9350

“Crimea is a colony of the Russian Empire, later Soviet Russia, and now contemporary Putinist Russia. Russians settled in the areas where sites of ethnic cleansing and displacement happened. Reclaiming the colony holds immense symbolic and imaginative significance for Russia. It proclaims that the empire is back and striking back—which helps explain why Crimea is a site and a springboard for all this violence today.”

Was Crimea ever voluntarily part of Russia?

“No. Russia has no natural land connection to Crimea. The only way it can claim the peninsula is through a history of conquest.”
>>>
(Much more is at the link.)


Fiz > In 1995 the Republic was forcibly abolished by Ukraine with the Autonomous Republic of Crimea established firmly under Ukrainian authority.


Well, if it is OK for Russia to seize Crimea in 2014 . . . It should certainly be OK for Ukraine to firmly establish Crimea under their authority in 1995.

By the way, every time I go looking into the history of that part of the world . . . I keep coming across "Russia seized this" and "Russia seized that"

>>>
The Holodomor, also known as the Ukrainian Famine, was a mass famine in Soviet Ukraine from 1932 to 1933 that killed millions of Ukrainians. The Holodomor was part of the wider Soviet famine of 1930–1933 which affected the major grain-producing areas of the Soviet Union. While most scholars are in consensus that the main cause of the famine was largely man-made, it remains in dispute whether the Holodomor was intentional, whether it was directed at Ukrainians, and whether it constitutes a genocide, the point of contention being the absence of attested documents explicitly ordering the starvation of any area in the Soviet Union. Wikipedia
>>>

Fiz > The whole of geopolitics is filthy with the skullduggery and propaganda.

On that we can agree.
Zim




Avatar

Mad Poet Strikes Again.




» You can also:
- - - - -
The above is a reply to the following message:
Re: Russias summer offensive in Ukraine underwhelms ; but Kyiv won’t be celebrating
By: Fiz
in GRITZ
Mon, 30 Jun 25 6:13 AM
Msg. 10597 of 10599

I think that is certainly likely, Zim. Russia would have had an interest. And I'm not claiming the Russian government doesn't know how to play the game. In fact, that is how Russia went Leninist to begin with: a coup.

From Wikipedia:
Established in 1922 following the Russian Civil War, the Soviet Union quickly became a one-party state under the Communist Party. Its early years under Lenin were marked by the implementation of socialist policies and the New Economic Policy (NEP), which allowed for market-oriented reforms.

The rise of Joseph Stalin in the late 1920s ushered in an era of intense centralization and totalitarianism. Stalin's rule was characterized by the forced collectivization of agriculture, rapid industrialization, and the Great Purge, which eliminated perceived enemies of the state.

No "democratic" vote. Lenists don't believe in democracy. That is part of how they differ from Marx's ideal of Communism as an organic process."

But there is more to the story than even that. I posted part of here a long time ago. IN 1991 Crimea originally voted, democratically, to become its OWN country.

They were invaded shortly after by Ukraine and "convinced" to become part of Ukraine instead (although almost everyone in Crimea was actually ethnic Russian).

So, you've swallowed, and then regurgitated repeatedly, a lot of B.S. about how Russia STOLE Crimea from Ukraine. Doesn't it upset you that you were deceived?

That is only a half truth -- hiding the deeper, and uglier truth. Ukraine HAD STOLEN Crimea from its own citizens less than 20 years earlier. So Russia was just "liberating" them. And, given a choice between being part of Ukraine or part of Russia...well, when you are ethnic Russian, not ethnic Ukranian, I expect it was a relief for most Crimeans (although I won't claim that I know for certain, it makes vastly more sense than the nonsense our MSM fed us).

Anyway, that is what is going on. Or, at least, that is the story which makes the most sense to me.

Oh, here is a snippet, again from Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Crimea_(1991%E2%80%932014)

"With the dissolution of the Soviet Union and Ukrainian independence the majority ethnic Russian Crimean peninsula was reorganized as the Republic of Crimea, after a 1991 referendum with the Crimean authorities pushing for more independence from Ukraine and closer links with Russia. In 1995 the Republic was forcibly abolished by Ukraine with the Autonomous Republic of Crimea established firmly under Ukrainian authority.

I'm not trying to say you should necessarily trust Wikipedia, btw. They are substantially "nudged" by various forces, also. But you can pick up the trail from there, if you care/dare to.

You have to dig your way pretty deep into the history books to get past the mountains of propaganda and “narrative” the US and European MSM are paid to push. But it is there. And, to really find out, it helps to talk to the people who actually lived in the regions one is talking about...at the time when things actually happened. I've done a little of that, as I partially explained right after the outbreak of this WW4 fuse.

Crimea has long been a jewel for larger nations to fight over. England tried to take it over at an earlier time -- and seems to still have a secret lust for Crimea.

Ah, here we go. "Strange" how the search engines are so loath to actually give you what you ask for, eh?

http://www.historic-uk.com/HistoryUK/HistoryofBritain/Outcome-Crimean-War/

The whole of geopolitics is filthy with the skullduggery and propaganda.


« GRITZ Home | Email msg. | Reply to msg. | Post new | Board info. Previous | Home | Next