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Re: Economist: 36% of Chinese Undergraduates Choose Engineering, Vs 5% in US and UK 

By: Fiz in GRITZ | Recommend this post (1)
Fri, 27 Jun 25 11:54 PM | 12 view(s)
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Msg. 10491 of 10514
(This msg. is a reply to 10486 by Zimbler0)

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Zim:
"Step 1. End the federal student loan program....

"Step 2. If one owes student loan moneys - one still has to pay it back. However, if one can demonstrate that a 'prestigious university' enrolled them knowing that they could not do college level work - they get enrolled in a class action lawsuit against the universities and the universities can (and should) pay back the student loans.

Step 3. We have the Service Academies.
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Thanks for the response, Zim!
#1: I agree!
#2. I believe that EVERY OTHER FORM OF DEBT EXCEPT TAX FRAUD IS DISCHARGEABLE BY BANKRUPTCY. Why is Student Loan debt an exception?

Student loan debt, which has been turned into an exploit of naive children, was dischargeable debt, as well, until "The Clintons" and a good contingent of other purchasable politicians, from both parties, hustled through a change of the law around the year 2000.

This law absolutely should go. Make the lenders EAT their losses when they lend to children who who think they are getting "educated" in "black-studies", and "liberal arts".

As a side benefit it would put a hell of a lot of useless "teachers" teaching useless subjects on the unemployed rolls...or flipping burgers and Burger King. How about that? ;->

#3: I had to look up "Service Academies" to figure out what you wanted to expand. Now I know you are referring to the Military Academies, such as West Point.

At least in their current form they are nowhere near adequate to the task of dramatically expanding the number of Engineers, legitimate-Scientists, and highly-skilled technicians to rebuild this country, much less get us the level of technical leadership we could use as a country. To begin with, per the wikipedia article I read, they require candidates to be "nominated" by a high-rankng politicians or bureaucrat.

But the basic idea of full room and board education which needs to be repaid by public service I would support. It is, in fact, better than my initial suggestion. The only other thing I would want to see is that it doesn't have to be strictly "military" service you are signing up for.

Enlarged in that way it would dovetail well with something I previously suggested (I think here): allowing high school students to transition to 4-5 years of working IN the US government, with the ideal goal of DISPLACING effectively *ALL* "career" government bureaucrats. (Let's face it, every government in all of human history has quickly gotten infested with bureaucrats who mostly serve themselves. We don't need a one of them if we had smart kids out of high school taking their place in 5 year stints.


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The above is a reply to the following message:
Re: Economist: 36% of Chinese Undergraduates Choose Engineering, Vs 5% in US and UK
By: Zimbler0
in GRITZ
Fri, 27 Jun 25 10:49 PM
Msg. 10486 of 10514

Fiz > As I said, I don't generally believe in "government run" things. But I would support a carefully designed and tightly run program to dramatically improve our education system and, yes, I think it needs to be funded from the Federal level, or it won't get done.


Sorry Fiz,
But I am going to have to strenuously disagree with you.

The federal 'student loan' program and the other 'lets educate people' programs have been spectacular failures. Between 'education costs' rising a LOT faster than the rate of inflation . . . and the enrollment in our 'prestigious universities' of clowns who's SAT scores say they can not do college level work . . .

Step 1. End the federal student loan program. End 'Pell Grants' and other assorted money give-a-Ways.

Step 2. If one owes student loan moneys - one still has to pay it back. However, if one can demonstrate that a 'prestigious university' enrolled them knowing that they could not do college level work - they get enrolled in a class action lawsuit against the universities and the universities can (and should) pay back the student loans.

Step 3. We have the Service Academies. I would not mind seeing them expanded. And maybe even some 'civil engineering' Service Academies created. Service Academies should include 'free' room, board, medical, etc.. . . Four years of schooling followed by eight years of service. There should be an entrance examination - slightly tougher and more comprehensive than the SAT and if the candidate can not pass the test they do not get admittance. Perhaps most important of all - this is not a 'social experiment' - There can be NO quotas or minority set asides or anything other than strict merit in admissions.

If the individual States want to create their own student loan programs or other 'educational programs' they can do that. But the federal has already demonstrated that it is NOT competent to create and run such a thing.

Zim.


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