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Re: MAGA or MIMA? Questions about Israel's Actions and Trump's Reaction. 

By: Zimbler0 in GRITZ | Recommend this post (2)
Sat, 21 Jun 25 10:09 PM | 9 view(s)
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Msg. 10104 of 10133
(This msg. is a reply to 10085 by Fiz)

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Fiz > Can the case be made that if Iran DOESN'T now "surrender", its future safety now depends, more than ever, on making nuclear weapons and becoming even stronger?


Fiz,
You have a serious misconception going on here.
Iran does not need nuclear weapons for 'protection'. And that is NOT the reason iran wants them. Iran wants nukes so they can eradicate Israel. And, given the fact that the iranian 'leaders' have been screeching "Death to America" and "Death to Israel" since shortly after the islamic 'revolution' in 1979 . . . I'm going to go out on a limb and say "I believe them". I believe iran wants to exterminate Israel and would not minding doing the same to the United States.

Point 2.0. I do not believe Israel 'Used Trump'. I believe Trump tried to 'negotiate' and not have this war. Let us not forget that barak obozo 'bought' a 'no nukes treaty' with Iran - that was NOT worth the paper it was printed on. Iran was never in compliance with bozo's 'treaty'. So, Trump tried to give iran an opportunity to avoid this war. Iran did what iran always does - pretend to negotiate, stall for more time, and LIE. Trump's sixty days ran out, and rather than allow iran more time to make nuclear weapons, Trump said: "Unleash the Dogs of War".

Do not forget that iran has been waging a 'proxy war' against Israel for a very long time now. And do not forget that twice just last year iran tried to directly attack Israel.

In point 3.0 you claim Russia has been made 'vastly stronger' by the Ukraine Russia War. Strange. Ukraine just whacked about a third of Russia's bomber fleet . . . how long till Russia can build replacements? Russia's rail system has severe problems. Russia is reduced to pulling old cold war era tanks out of storage. And Russia doesn't have the man power so they have 'imported' North Koreans to fight for them.

For a 'pipsqueak' nation . . . Israel has done quite well. They mauled every attempt by the Islamic world to eradicate them.


Fiz > Doesn't a war of attrition considerably favor Iran over Israel?


It might. If Israel was going to fight a 'war of attrition' with iran. Think of it this way. How many Iranian aircraft can fly over Tel Aviv and drop bombs on Israel? Oh, that's right. Zero. Most of iran's aircraft have been destroyed and the runways cratered so that they can't even take off. In the meantime Israel has achieved air superiority dominance over Iran and can drop bombs anywhere they want to.

Zim.




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The above is a reply to the following message:
MAGA or MIMA? Questions about Israel's Actions and Trump's Reaction.
By: Fiz
in GRITZ
Sat, 21 Jun 25 6:14 PM
Msg. 10085 of 10133

It's increasingly looking as though Iran isn't going to "pull a Syria" and collapse. Yes, it was surprised -- it thought it was protected during good faith negotiations with the US. But Iran VASTLY, VASTLY outsizes Israel, and it has a very large manufacturing and resource base, as well as critical support with Russia, China, and other BRICS+ countries. Israel is reportedly getting hit quite often. Maybe Iran is getting hit more, but Iran is vastly bigger, has vastly more natural resources, and has been fundamentally toughened by decades of *practice* with "sanctions". One FACT: a protracted "war of attrition" clearly favors Iran.

Questions:

1.0 What happens if Iran doesn't now surrender to Israel? Why would it now trust the United States to keep its word? Why would Iran -- or any country -- now trust the United States can keep Israel in check. What if Iran still refuses give up using its own uranium -- for even power generation? Can the case be made that if Iran DOESN'T now "surrender", its future safety now depends, more than ever, on making nuclear weapons and becoming even stronger?

2.0 Did Trump KNOW Israel was going to use him -- and his negotiations -- to deceive Iran? If yes, then how can anyone ever again trust Trump in "good faith" negotiations? If "no", then how can Trump reward Israel's deceit? How does it help Trump, or the US, to "Make Israel MASTER Again"?

3.0 Since US proxy war hasn't defeated Russia (arguably made it vastly stronger), and US hasn't defeated Houthis, despite promises from Trump. What is the argument that the US can easily defeat Iran -- or should even commit vast resources to supporting that, at this juncture?

4.0 How does Making Israel MASTER OF THE US Again, Make AMERICA Great again? I mean, make the ECONOMIC case, or any case, how - specifically - would a protracted war with Iran make the US more wealthy, unified, or "great"?

5.0 What PERCENT of Trump voters OPPOSE US involvement in ISRAELS "forever war"? Trump ran as the Peace Candidate. What percent of Trump support would desert him, or just give up enthusiastically supporting him, if he gets involved in the Israel-Iran war? Some polls say the MAJORITY of Trump voters don't want the US involved in fighting Iran.

6.0 As I said, Israel is a pip-squeak in terms of resources, territory, economy, and supporters in that region of the world (or arguably even the world as a whole). It is a pip-squeak with a lot of nuclear weapons. What happens if Israel gets desperate? How desperate does Israel get if the US doesn't continue to GIVE it most of its hundreds of billions of dollars in weapons and proxy support? How does it handle a toe-to-toe protracted war with Iran, keeping in mind it is very limited in internal resources?

Doesn't a war of attrition considerably favor Iran over Israel?
---
These are just a few of the obvious questions. I haven't heard much discussion here on any of them. I'm not so much asking who supports Israel, nor who dislikes Iran. I'm asking for opinions on these various questions. I'd also like suggestions on thought-provoking other questions we maybe should be asking right now.


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