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Re: To infinity or not to Infinity

By: De_Composed in GRITZ | Recommend this post (0)
Tue, 10 Jun 25 11:02 PM | 35 view(s)
Boardmark this board | Grits Breakfast of Champeens! 		Msg. 09529 of 09752
(This msg. is a reply to 09520 by monkeytrots)
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Re: “If the 'universe' actually does bend back on itself so there really is no 'edge' defining it's limit, then one has a priori proclaimed/established that there can be no such thing as 'other universes'”I've got two answers refuting that, but I'm not sure I can do a good job of explaining either one. Here goes:

1. You've no doubt heard of the thought experiment where we try to describe a 3-dimensional universe from a 2-dimensional being's perspective, using a bowling ball, a rubber sheet and a marble. The bowling ball rests on the rubber sheet creating a decent sized dimple. It is analogous to the sun sitting on a 'sheet' of four (or more) dimensional space-time and also creating a dimple.

In both cases, the creatures living in their universe cannot see the dimple caused by the massive object. That is because light skims along the rubber sheet's surface and makes the dimple look straight. Beings can only see what light reveals.

If you aren't familiar with this, let me know. But it's pretty famous and I bet you've heard of it.

Here's what I'm leading up to: Had the bowling ball not been there, that portion of the rubber sheet would have occupied a different location. With the bowling ball in place, it's a location that we 3-dimensional beings can put our hand on but which a 2-dimensional resident of the rubber-sheet universe CANNOT get to.

Now float another rubber sheet one foot above the first one. Give it a bowling ball of its own - in the same corresponding spot. The second sheet... (akin to a second universe) can dip down into the location where we had our hand.

2) The quantum world (the "real" world, by the way, though it's not well understood) operates to a great extent by probabilities. If there is a 50 percent chance that an atom is unstable and will decay, jettisoning an alpha particle, the decay possibly does occur... *AND* does not occur.

I say "possibly" because this is one of the many things in quantum mechanics that is not well understood. But experiments support the possibility.

This particular atom resides within your brain. If the alpha escapes, it will smash into surrounding DNA causing extensive damage and resulting in terminal cancer. If it doesn't escape, your life will go on as usual.

These two outcomes possibly both happen. The universe splits, forming two universes - one where you live and one where you die. The two WERE one universe but now they're two, with NO POSSIBLE WAY for residents of the two to reach out and touch one another.


I've just come up with two scenarios in which multiple universes could exist without any way for an occupant of one to make his way to the other. Neither scenario involves a hypothetical "edge."

There are probably a dozen other interesting scenarios that could do this, too, effectively defining alternate universes in ways that are separated by something intraversable. (I'm not sure if that's a word!) I'm just not smart enough to come up with those other scenarios this afternoon.





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The above is a reply to the following message:
To infinity or not to Infinity
By: monkeytrots in GRITZ
Tue, 10 Jun 25 8:53 PM 		Msg. 09520 of 09752

Just a simple statement of obviousness ...

If the 'universe' actually does bend back on itself so there really is no 'edge' defining it's limit, then one has a priori proclaimed/established that there can be no such thing as 'other universes', because, per argument, the one universe we live in is everything there is, it is unlimited, infinite - the lack of an 'edge' 'proves' it.

QED

Now, chew on that one fur a few milliparsecs, afore goin on another tang-end.

The universe is one giant mobius strip.

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