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Re: What is Twistor Theory? | Roger Penrose AND What came before Big Bang? Why he changed his mind. 

By: De_Composed in GRITZ | Recommend this post (1)
Mon, 09 Jun 25 7:40 PM | 19 view(s)
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Msg. 09443 of 09489
(This msg. is a reply to 09442 by Fiz)

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fizzy:

Re: “General relativity tells us that what we call space is just another feature of the gravitational field of the universe, so space and space-time can and do not exist apart from the matter and energy that creates the gravitational field. This is not speculation, but sound observation.”
This is heady stuff.

In January, I posted a figure from one of John Gribbin's books showing the order in which the particles responsible for the four forces broke symmetry with the single superforce as the universe cooled. Gravitons were the first to do so, being frozen out at 10^-43 seconds from the start of things, α.

That's early! But it's not SO early that the universe hadn't already expanded and cooled. In short, the diagram and standard model - along with the universe's early expansion - suggest (to me) that space must have existed before gravitons. Before gravity.

Thoughts?








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The above is a reply to the following message:
Re: What is Twistor Theory? | Roger Penrose AND What came before Big Bang? Why he changed his mind.
By: Fiz
in GRITZ
Mon, 09 Jun 25 6:59 PM
Msg. 09442 of 09489

Fiz: "Space is CREATED by gravity; if no gravity then no space...I'm about 99.9% I've got all that right."

I'm calling myself to provide evidence in support of this SPECIFIC statement, so nobody else needs to. I started thinking overnight that my "99.9%" level of assurance might be a bit high, with regard to space itself. So this morning I started searching -- and I was surprised that my searches mostly came up embarrassingly empty. Which I thought, and still think, is odd...

However, that said, I DID find a pretty authortative source which obliquely supports my statement:


http://einstein.stanford.edu/content/relativity/a11332.html

Special & General Relativity Questions and Answers
Can space exist by itself without matter or energy around?

No. Experiments continue to show that there is no 'space' that stands apart from space-time itself...no arena in which matter, energy and gravity operate which is not affected by matter, energy and gravity. General relativity tells us that what we call space is just another feature of the gravitational field of the universe, so space and space-time can and do not exist apart from the matter and energy that creates the gravitational field. This is not speculation, but sound observation.

I'm still bothered that I have not seen a good theory of HOW time and space (space-time) are specifically CREATED by gravity. Time is slowed by gravity. Space-time is BENT by gravity. But when I try to dig in on "CREATED", the above is the best I have found so far. If someone finds something further, or contrary, or importantly different, please bring it to my attention.

Okay?

Until then I am going to stick with what I laid out in my first post, except maybe lower the assurance from 99.9% to only 99%. Is that fair enough?


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