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Re: What is Twistor Theory? | Roger Penrose AND What came before Big Bang? Why he changed his mind.

By: De_Composed in GRITZ | Recommend this post (0)
Sun, 08 Jun 25 5:25 PM | 14 view(s)
Boardmark this board | Grits Breakfast of Champeens! 		Msg. 09358 of 09390
(This msg. is a reply to 09346 by Zimbler0)
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Zimbler:

Re: “But if one were able to go to what you think is the 'Edge of the Universe' . . . I bet one would find still more 'universe' even further out.”I think the scientific consensus is that there is more universe beyond "the edge." In fact, the edge is only a blind spot in our vision.

As you know, nearly all of the 125 billion observable galaxies are moving away from ours. (About 100 are moving closer, including Andromeda which is on a collision course.) Moreover, they are ACCELERATING away, due not just to their own movement but also to the expansion of space-time. Each point of space-time is moving away at the rate of 20,675 km/second per billion light years distance, with galaxies getting carried along with it regardless of their subjective speeds and directions. Nearby galaxies can overcome this and approach us, but the further ones are all receding.

I'm told that the farthest galaxies we know about are moving away at close to the speed of light. Those that are still further recede at more than the speed of light and can no longer be seen. This means that galaxies are winking out of existence as space-time carries them away. From our point of view, the universe is losing its members. From THEIR point of view, everything is just fine and we are the ones who are going away.

Is there an edge of the universe? Nobody knows. We only know that if there is one, it's further away than we can see.
Re: “An 'Entropic' Universe? Where all matter and all energy have 'spread out and dissipated' . . . Not gonna happen. Gravity will pull the matter back together again eventually forming the 'Mother of All Black Holes' . . . Till it explodes and everything starts over again.”You can think what you want, but observation and current scientific thought do not support that view. Gravity becomes weaker with distance, and the distances are increasing at an increasing rate (acceleration), not decreasing. If everything is accelerating away from everything else, gravity isn't going to be strong enough to overcome that and pull them back together. There isn't enough mass to produce that kind of gravity.

But, something kind of neat: If a star is moving outward at an accelerating rate, it's akin to a different star being pulled toward a black hole. Lulled by gravity, this second star will move the black hole's way at an accelerating rate. At some point, each star will become elongated as their extremes get a LITTLE closer to the attracting force than their opposite sides. The stars will eventually be torn apart by this.

THEN it gets more interesting. As the star material falls into the attractant, its molecules will elongate and be ripped apart. Then this will happen to the atoms. And then to the quantum matter.

What happens to quantum matter when it is ripped apart? My guess is that it reverts to energy.

What this means is that accelerating space-time and gravity are similar, and their ultimate effects on matter are identical. Matter caught in either must eventually decay.

If you haven't already done so, you really must read the novel GATEWAY by Frederick Pohl. It discusses this.

Gateway won the Hugo and Nebula awards in 1978. Its successor, BEYOND THE BLUE EVENT HORIZON, won them both too, in 1981. I think it's the only time this has happened, though I'm not up to speed on newer SF series and what they may have won. I do know that Lois McMaster Bujold and C.J. Cherryh have won a lot.






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The above is a reply to the following message:
Re: What is Twistor Theory? | Roger Penrose AND What came before Big Bang? Why he changed his mind.
By: Zimbler0 in GRITZ
Sun, 08 Jun 25 3:29 PM 		Msg. 09346 of 09390

Decomposed > Ironically, in the distant future when all matter 'evaporates,' the universe will return to a state of thermal equilibrium,

Decomposed > and the very, very big universe will be no different from the very, very small pre-universe that spawned the Big Bang..


Infinity.
A very tough concept for our finite minds to wrap themselves around. But if one were able to go to what you think is the 'Edge of the Universe' . . . I bet one would find still more 'universe' even further out.

And time? This year is 2025 -measured as 2,025 years since the birth of Christ. But, time was marching along long before Christ - and we have the ancient Greeks and Romans and Sumerians etc. etc. as proof of it. There is no beginning or end of time. Time can be warped by the gravitational pull of a black hole. Or by traveling near light speed . . . But Time still IS.

An 'Entropic' Universe? Where all matter and all energy have 'spread out and dissipated' . . . Not gonna happen. Gravity will pull the matter back together again eventually forming the 'Mother of All Black Holes' . . . Till it explodes and everything starts over again.

Whenever one tries to put a 'Finite Limit' to the Universe . . . it stops making sense to me.

Zim.

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