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Re: Cactus Flower...

By: fizzy in ALEA | Recommend this post (0)
Thu, 31 Mar 22 9:11 PM | 25 view(s)
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Msg. 45187 of 54959
(This msg. is a reply to 45183 by Cactus Flower)

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"Does your way of thinking about things have a different explanation than what seems the obvious one: that higher shot rates produce lower death rates, at least in the short run?"

I'm not anywhere near up to speed on how things are in the UK. I DO know that a good portion of the better statistical information, much of it hinting that something wasn't right with the vaccine program, and in particular with adverse effects, came from the UK (kudos to your statisticians for that!) Even better data came from Israel, where the vax rates were even higher.

(keep in mind, also, the vaccine type preferences varied between countries. I believe in Israel it was almost entirely Pfizer; I believe UK was more mixed?)


In my just-prior post (which came out a minute ago) I mentioned that the vaccines seemed to reduce both deaths and symptoms against the orignal variant. Not so much against later variants. And probably not at all with Omicron. The data is really compromised /biased to support vaccines, though (that's in support of the big money political interests). But it makes sense ... and I believe the early results were impressive on both counts.

But that is NOT a valid way of looking at things, unless one (the system) is
(1) ONLY short term oriented,
(2) only hyper-focussed on direct Covid deaths and damage.
(3)ONLY concerned about the most "at risk" cohort.


#3 Deserve to be looked at critically? Since WHEN did it become in HUMANITIES best interest to say, effectively,

"SCREW the healthy; the children; the young in general!

SCREW them all! Screw the next generation! Screw those who have invested their lives in anything but the best interests of the retired and feeble!

"THE MANY NEED TO BE SACRIFIED TO THE FEW! AND TO THE STATE!"

ONLY those who have only a few years left, who are deadly sick already or already in retirement, must be protected at all costs! Those who have most of the money, who have already had a long life, already had their chance to build something or have a life, MUST BE PROTECTED AT *ALL* COSTS!

"From each, according to their ability" (whether they want to contribute to the project or not) "...to each, according to their need!" If I read your intro correctly, you probably recognize the allusion -- and probably don't agree with it in general.

Why should we make an exception to our principles, and the best interests of humanity and the next generation, because it is you and I who now have the need, and perhaps not as much life ahead of us -- in any case -- as we have already had?


I think that is what you are asking. And I trust you already knew the answer.

To be fair all around, at the BEGINNING Covid-19 was a complete unknown -- at least to most of us, but apparently not to Moderna and Fauci, if the trail of breadcrumbs means anything.

But by the time the vaccines were ready for rollout, in late 2020, THAT WAS NO LONGER TRUE:

By late 2020, a VAST amount was known about Covid-19:

(1) It was known that Covid-19 ALMOST EXCLUSIVELY killed those over 80 and the obese. And, if you were over 80 AND obese, you were really at risk..BUT you would be at super high risk to normal flu, as well, and probably only had a few years to live in the best of cases.

(2) Those under 30 were not statistically at risk. They had VASTLY more risk from an auto accident than from Covid-19. Children under 20? They had, as a group, ZERO risk of death and little risk of long term consequences from Covid -- and massive risk from having their childhood and education destroyed.

(3) There were LOTS of treatments that had established themselves as statistically beneficial, especially when used with common sense and in combination, on outcomes IN THE E.R.

And even workable prophylaxis was pretty well known -- in restricted circles.

BUT the "Emergency Use Authorization", at least in the US, REQUIRED THAT THEIR BE *NO* "known" TREATMENT.

And the money and the political power rewarded, handsomely, the "*NO* known treatment",

And, so, almost everyone died -- and certainly the overwhelming majority of those who paid the most -- died or suffered needlessly.

FOR THE BENEFIT OF A FEW. THE FEW RICH. THE FEW POLITICALLY CONNECTED. THE FEW ALREADY NEAR THE END OF THEIR LIVES.

This was no "Black Plague", killing 1/3+ of the population within days of diagnosis, with no treatment. It NEVER justified the loss of freedoms for the many, nor the suppression of early treatments, nor the engorgement of the rick and powerful.

It is probably the most shameful and expensive clown show in human history. And most people still haven't a clue.

--
Heh. I'm going to stop ranting now! I was supposed to be doing some work this AM! :-)


I have come to realize that men are not born to be free. Liberty is a need felt by a small class of people whom nature has endowed with nobler minds than the mass of men. -Napoleon


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The above is a reply to the following message:
Re: Cactus Flower...
By: Cactus Flower
in ALEA
Thu, 31 Mar 22 7:48 PM
Msg. 45183 of 54959

I have no problem with people having opinions. And it was nice of you to say thanks!

The thing I don't like is when folks come on this board and become belligerent before I know much about them, and then go down the abusive road. Life's too short, and so on. Disagreeing isn't an issue. But leaving folks space to have different opinions is always helpful. No one means badly by you just because they don't adopt the same positions you do. So far, I'm not having a problem although our politics are obviously going to be different.

Back to the jabs...

Have you had a look at the divergence between the mortality rates in the UK and the US once the two covid vaccination programmes were in place? I am assuming both countries have similar (or similar enough) methods of quantifying mortality for a comparison to be valid. But if you say no comparison is possible that way, then surplus deaths yields fairly similar results.

At any rate, the UK, which had persistently higher vaccination rates has had a much lower covid mortality rate and surplus death rate than the US since the two programmes started. Does your way of thinking about things have a different explanation than what seems the obvious one: that higher shot rates produce lower death rates, at least in the short run?


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